Existence Is Pointless

if we have no meaning and are just putting an illusion up (pretending we have a purpose), then would you rather see life meaningless (and then what? go commit suicide?) or stay in that pretend world? most of us seem to agree that we want to live life for the experiences and all the other things that come with just living for living. so is this pretend world ok? as someone said earlier, is it that bad to let the egomind create this illusion? maybe that's its original purpose, the reason why we have it.

so for fi, if that person stops global warming, that's enabling ous, as Lee puts it, ultimate purpose - survival, and the survival of others (as how Annie says it)

so henning, we define our own purpose of life, right?

as for the answer to le's quote question, i think i agree mostly with Josh for my personal self, though i like fiona's and kenneth's answers too

Joshua wrote:TO live a life to the fullest extent is to have gain as much experience as possible.

Do you believe it is the quantity or qualities of our experiences that we should measure how well we have lived our lives by? Or would you believe it is not just the experience, but what we learn from it?

hen wrote:The above realization has neither crushed nor liberated me. It's done something that I don't know how to describe (and it's not even as great a change as it sounds).

Let's hear some more about this. Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm interested.

Nick_A wrote:We believe we are making progress but psychologically and biolologically all we do is continue turning in cycles. The basic question is if "this is all there is?" Is there nothing other, no purpose we are oblivious to, then living the cycles of the world in Plato's cave?

So do you believe there is more to existence than just merely existing, or is your belief more or less aligned with everyone else's?

Fiona wrote:Another reason why I feel disappointed is because of the great figures in history. It's hard to believe that none of them served a purpose. What about Lincoln, Gandhi, Aristotle, and Churchill? Did they go through everything to change the world, for...nothing? Is it just a big pointless game we're playing here?

They might not have been fulfilling a pre-set purpose of life, but they certainly managed to live meaningful lives. So therefore, I don't think there's no need to despair.

Philly_CS wrote:It is the pointlessness of existence combined with the world surrounding us that makes me say "okay, why not do something that is fulfilling to me?" So, as humans, we assign meaning to meaningless things, and thus, to life. We are in control of our own meaning of life.

Yup.

Fiona wrote:The idea of meaning comes from the ego-mind.
It is so full of itself. It is egocentric. It is narcissist.
This is why it tends to try to find meaning for its existence. It thinks that it is here to serve some grand purpose.

But isn't this belief [that the ego creates] good for humans?
If there wasn't this belief, a person would probably sit sluggishly at home watching news of death and destruction and do nothing. Cuz his existence is meaningless right?

Andy wrote:Our idea of "the purpose of life" is from the egomind. Our belief of purpose is a concept, a way of motivating ourselves to continue on. The egomind bases its most primary basic motivation on survival, and to do that the ego must make us carry on and not lose faith...in a sense we are donkeys chasing a carrot on a stick.

Oftentimes when people say they have had found their calling, their purpose in life, there is a deep sense of empowerment and motivation. Assuming the idea of meaning and purpose comes from the egomind, then why is there that feeling? Doesn't that sense of finding something that belongs to you, that connects to you, that fits you arrive from the Being? Is our idea of purpose and meaning arrive just from the egomind? What does everyone else here think?

Hi Vince

So do you believe there is more to existence than just merely existing, or is your belief more or less aligned with everyone else's?

We live by mechanical existence which is just existing as a necessity much like a dog or a horse. Man has the potential for conscious existence where objective conscious human purpose is served. So I do believe there is more to existing for us then just existence. However it requires consciousness which we lack as creatures of existence reacting out of necessity.

Vincent_Lee wrote:Though we often try to create a higher purpose for ourselves, we only do so to make our existence seem more meaningful. At the end of the day, it’s simply about surviving.

Looking past the complicated web of social appearances and internal complications, confusion, and abstractions, our existence is pointless beyond reproducing.

HAHA is it just me or does your wording make us sound like a couple of one-minded "LET'S REPRODUCE" humans?

Anyway, I find this topic highly interesting. Isn't this kind of like how people constantly ask what is the meaning of life and fail to answer all the time?
Let's say the soul is nonlocal at this point. Then is there any point in surviving and trying to beat out others for yourself to survive when all of us have the same soul and belong within each other nonlocally? If you get my point.

In some ways, the constant drive to survive seems more natural, doesn't it? We need food instinctively, we need water instinctively, we need shelter, comfort etc all instinctively. So if we need all of these things instinctively, then should we label these tendencies as the "purpose in life?" What if we do all those things to survive instinctively but there is a separate purpose in life? I believe that humans are like little puzzle pieces -- someone is there to disrupt the social order for the world to get themselves into a new social order that will help the world realize something that is more suitable for the time's situation. Let's take Hitler and Stalin for example. I believe that although the two authoritarian leaders were evil in a sense that they committed extraordinary crimes of genocide, homicide, etc., but I also believe that in some ways, because of their actions, they helped the world realize some things that should have been realized long ago. They helped people in the world realize how important human rights is as well as racism. It helped the Jewish establish their own home in the world - Israel. Russia had to go through much turmoil with the experiment of Communism but it helped the world realize that an ideal government based on communism is not possible for humans who can become corrupt with power. I mean, think about it. If you had the idea of communism at first, you would think that it's a very good idea in its fundamentals. It affirmed to the world how socialism and capitalism are the two kinds of economies that will possibly work the best (I say possibly due to China's communist regime).

Okay I moved too much. But I'm saying that if all these people are like little puzzle pieces that help humans go through the next memes and develop little by little, these are our purposes in life? It's only a guess though so don't start bashing me here. I'm not saying that all of us have a purpose to go out there in the world and that maybe Lee will blow up a building that have corrupt politicians inside. Just kidding. But hopefully you guys will understand my point.

They might not have been fulfilling a pre-set purpose of life, but they certainly managed to live meaningful lives. So therefore, I don't think there's no need to despair.

Lee, here you present us with your perspective on the quote. From your POV, it doesn't matter if our lives have meaning or not as long as we live meaningful lives that matter [to ourselves and the world]. Who cares about the lack of a pre-set purpose of life?

So do you believe there is more to existence than just merely existing, or is your belief more or less aligned with everyone else's?

I don't know but whenever I think of the solar systems, galaxies, nebulae, and black holes, I can't help but feel that yes there is more to existing. I find it impossible that these spectacular phenomena occurred naturally [well it depends on your definition of natural]. What I mean is that I find hard to believe they appeared just like that. Why is there a predetermined order in this universe?

This doesn't have to do with anything, but what's outside the Universe? Yes, the universe is expanding, but expanding into WHAT?
Are you really here, or is this entire universe just me and I'm dreaming of you guys?
What's with the whole new dimension of time and space?
Whenever I think of these mind-spinning questions, my answer almost always is: some one must be playing one hell of a game up there.
Because in the end, time still goes on. We can't be here for anything - yes maybe we can change the world, save humanity, but then again, the earth goes on even without humans, even without life. It doesn't matter. In the end, we're probably here simply as entertainment for someone or something larger than life. Yeah I think that's our purpose of existing, you know?

that's an interesting take, rosa. i really feel like this discussion could go either way, meaning in the end, it boils down to perception. how big of a difference should it make to me to know that i actually have no purpose in life? if what i'm doing is something i enjoy or is helping others (either the way Stalin/Hitler did, or in the usual definition of "helping others"), then that's more important to me

leeee.
honestly, you are a pessimist. but, that's just my judgment, so no offense.
the point of existence to me is simply to experience and to enjoy. for me, trying to enjoy every single minute of my life is my purpose of existence. one thing that i have been pondering about is the way we think. obviously, i can't feel what you are thinking and i can only experience what i am thinking, so when we die and incarnate (if there is such a thing as that), do we ever feel the same? i doubt so. thus, to live my life to the fullest extent is my purpose of life.
as joyce has said, it's all down to the perception, so maybe my purpose in life is probably not even a purpose at all/ so it all depends on what you think

@rosa
what i believe is that reproduction, or rather, or struggle to survive, is like a "base purpose" of life. Every species needs to survive, because unless they can do so, they don't even have a chance to carry out any other purposes.

humans, however, have already established a firm chance of survival, and the theory is just like spiral dynamics. Survival was at the base, the beige meme. As we evolve, it becomes less and less of an issue, which gives us time to focus on other purposes. these purposes, however, should be determined individually.

@lee
what i meant by the comment in parentheses was that the experience is too hard to describe, and really not that interesting. The way I put it gave it an undeserved dramatic tone.

@fiona
Interesting how you say that the vast size of the universe makes you think that there is more to living. If anything, I thought the sheer size of the universe would make our existence even less significant.

scratch that; when taken into consideration, the size of the universe makes us more or less non-existent.
that is, considering the universe is ever expanding.

once again, i revert to mathematical equations.
Given that the size of humans is 1, and the universe, as it is ever expanding, is ∞
the ratio would then be 1:∞
as 2 term ratios can be expressed as fractions, the ratio above can be expressed as 1/∞, which equals 0.

so then, compared to the size of the universe, we don't exist.

It doesn't matter. In the end, we're probably here simply as entertainment for someone or something larger than life. Yeah I think that's our purpose of existing, you know?

So apparently your end conclusion is also that our life is seemingly pointless because of how insignificant we are. There are, however, a number of mindsets you can use to disregard our insignificance:
-I don't care how small I really am, long as I appear large enough to myself and those in my surroundings.
-Long as we're all going to die sooner or later, might as well make use of the time I have; the only way to make things worse is to waste our already limited lifespan.
-There is no solid proof regarding the afterlife and what happens after our death. Far as I know, maybe we do indeed exist forever, though not physically.

To sum everything up, just go with "I don't care."
It's not ignorance, it's simply taking what you have and using it. Real ignorance would be to take it and throw it away. Think of what Emerson said in Experience and you'll know what I'm trying to say.

Hmm, many people seem to think that we have no purpose until we find a purpose ourselves. Is that called existentialism (or something?) We have no reason to exist until we construe a reason to, but I think having a reason does indeed help in the long run.

Then why do we always strive for a meaning in our existence? Because we're tired of having no route in life? It is tiring to function without a destination because we'd just be "wasting energy wading in every direction."

But will this understanding crush me or liberate me?

I suppose it would crush me with the listlessness of the situation. It's so much more easier to know that you're working your butt off in school to eat steak every single day twenty years into the future than to know that you're just doing something extremely meaningless in the long run.

But then, I suppose it is a liberation to me in the way that I can pursue anything I want to do with my life. There'd be no wrong answer, no problems like making too less money or having a bad job. Our objective in life isn't to get into a great college or anything of the sort. You can decide yourself!

So I guess there's still dilemmas in life that we can't get rid of even if we try, such as the reason we exist. But then again, this is probably why some people say "Follow your heart"; 'cause there's nothing else to follow other than that.

Measuring of the life is not only by the quality or only by the quantity, it is both. What i mean by gaining the most amount of experience i meant high quality experiences or those that are meaning full. As humans, as henning said, we only have a limited amount of lifespan, and the purpose of life should not be dependent upon the outer world, infact we should live a life that has a purpose to ourselves, to our very self. As long as we are worth while to ourselves we are already serving a purpose. THerefore, i think it is important that we do not regret, and take every chance we have in life, not only gaining experience but also using our time on this workd in a physical body usefully.

We can live the animal way
Or we can live with a purpose
Im guessing that its not the way how we view it
its the way how we respond this this
question

Conquest of Mind stuf

Joshua wrote:Measuring of the life is not only by the quality or only by the quantity, it is both. What i mean by gaining the most amount of experience i meant high quality experiences or those that are meaning full. As humans, as henning said, we only have a limited amount of lifespan, and the purpose of life should not be dependent upon the outer world, infact we should live a life that has a purpose to ourselves, to our very self. As long as we are worth while to ourselves we are already serving a purpose. THerefore, i think it is important that we do not regret, and take every chance we have in life, not only gaining experience but also using our time on this workd in a physical body usefully.

Wouldn't you say some experiences are more worthwhile than others though? I believe this is the direction lee meant to take when he originally asked.

It's been a fairly amusing week for me as moderator and as it draws to a close, I've got one final question to throw out. Honestly, I should've asked it sooner but better later than never.

We've already determined a purpose for the egomind, which is to ensure our survival. What of the being then? What is the being's purpose?

Gift from the Higher, which allows us to transcend and enhance the world after human beings survive through the natural diasters.
Ego mind is for us to survive, but already are surviving.
Being is prob there/here to allow the human beings to develop, if everyone were at one with their being, no unstable with ego mind messing around, we could all unite to improve the world.

Its probably like the final solution. Just like how in computer games, we need to save energy, save mana, save power, save chi to conjure up a big mama fireball, or a cero blast, or some blue kamakazi laser $!@#. Once we save up to the limit, we release the ultimate attack and we win the game. But saving up the energy would prove difficult because, the boos would probably be letting out creeps to annoy you. Thats what the hell is going on at the moment. The egomind is letting out little creeps to attack us, and penetrate through our defence, by doing so, not a significant amount of people can transcend and then become part of the ultimate attack.

Right now the egomind is succeeding. But who knows, we might be able to save up to a Rasengan in the future.

Well, this is actually kinda like asking what we're here for, if you look at it in an analogous way, the ego mind is like one of our limbs, there to help us survive, and then, well, the being controls it right? So...its like a human controlling the limb. Now what? Kind of like asking what we're here for, all over again. I know the easiest path to take is simply not to question our existence, as the truth could potentially drive us mad or ruin our lives, but if you want a solid answer, I don't have one.

However, the closest I DO have to an answer is that there isn't a purpose. Maybe stuff just happens and maybe we're pulling reasons and lables out of our asses. Because from what I know, humans will over interpret or label, giving things a "purpose" to make a little sense of what they see. If we could take a step back and be more aware, we might see that everything is a matter of perspective. If we have a purpose then we create it for ourselves, because we see what we want and we make that our reality. I see the "being" as a label created by humans to make understanding the mind a little easier. I don't believe in a separate entity in us called the "being." And why does there have to be a higher power, why can't things be as simple as they seem? WE can't accept that this is all their is to life and so we create in our imaginations, rules and unseen powers to quench our desire to be a part of something more, something new.

I sort of agree with Kenny.... Being may just be one of those imaginations that sprung out of boredom. However, According to Ms.Kay, the concept of Being was developed through experience and passed down from the wise (the experienced ones). Almost every culture has witness Being. It comes through many labels. Chinese for an instance, believe in "Chi", a force of energy that resides within our body while a typical Western point of view is "Being". In a sense, "being" is universal but in different forms and labels. So what really is "the imagination for Being" is not Being itself, but its label. To think about it, We don't have to call it Being at all! Being is just a word used for communication purposes...So yeah, instead of arguing about Being and its roots...why don't we just sit down and experience it ourselves? Thats the closest answer we can individually obtain...Unless we hear it from the "wise" and the experienced.

Still, good questioning because the concept of Being may had a bias or sumthing...

As for Lee's question, I think Being is just something the physical matter runs on. The physical needs the Being to fuel the ongoing energy transimittion in the body...generating reactions and stuff to keep us moving on. Without Being, we basically have nothing inside. Its like a empty shell...it is energy...it is life.
According to Psychology Class, Being is energy too, and I am guessing it is the energy frequency that determines life/death...consciousness/unconsciousness ..
Also, it is my belief that the Being is a bridge that covers the gap between the mind and the Universal Being. We sometimes extract ideas from the Universal Being no? Therefore we need "Being"?
Yes?

So what do we need Being for? To live of course...why else is it there if the egomind cannot kill it? THE MIND NEEDS IT. WE all do. In order to live, each organ...each particle of our body must work together and strive...

ta Da

hmm. okay, since lee said i didnt reply his question, i'll do it now
asking why there is a being is like asking why are we alive. that's the beauty of nature: unknown mysteries
however, i have a hypothesis about our being's existence. it is used to counteract the destructive forces of ego mind. although this might not be its initial use, but i is now one of the being's role. if we simply live with the ego mind, are we able to empathize and sympathize as we do now? i don't know, but don't we connect better with our being? when we are all interrelated we are able to "feel" one another's emotions better. if it is simply the ego mind, are we still able to make peace with each other, or are we going to be irritable human beings trying to out do each other? even though we say that the ego mind is essential, but it is also rather pointless. but then again, my skepticism is also from the ego mind, so im not really in a position to say that

Vincent_Lee wrote:We've already determined a purpose for the egomind, which is to ensure our survival. What of the being then? What is the being's purpose?

That's an interesting question. Quite literally.

When I first saw the question, it made me think that it is the Being's presence that keeps us reminded that we are part of a greater whole and that our ego-mind's selfishness should not consume us in our thoughts and our everyday actions. Or perhaps that is going further in and connecting through our Instinct and Intuition. However, if my point is taken, then wouldn't the question of the feeling of guilt kind of come into the question? For example, humans are becoming more and more wary of our global situation with global warming. There is a...hint of remorse among us humans for what we have done, right? So is this from the mind or from the Being that is allowed to become more prominent and active?

Okay I kind of got off track but away from that, I also think that Kenneth has a good point however. The thing he commented saying that us trying to analyze the point of existence for the Being might pull us away from gradually finding out the truth and such.

Vincent Lee wrote:We've already determined a purpose for the egomind, which is to ensure our survival. What of the being then? What is the being's purpose?

Replying as requested.

I do believe i mentioned somewhere in some thread... oh right, ken's. The ladder metaphor.

I believe that the being is what comes after the ego mind in order of advancement. The ego mind is the beige meme, for survival purposes. As we go on though, we establish a stable ground for survival, and have time to go into other things (I'm sure I mentioned this elsewhere as well).

This is where the being does its job, providing inspiration for the sake of further advancement.

After all, there isn't much point in survival if we have the tendency to wipe ourselves out eventually. As already seen, the ego mind will conflict with the ego mind of the other individuals, making it quite controversial to have around at this point. What is needed know is the ability to live in harmony with everything else, to ensure true, eternal survival (lest inevitable Armageddon do us part).

That's my view on this question. In the end, it seems that the base purpose remains survival, though in a different form.

Well, we think that there is no point of living. All of our preception, comes from the brain detecting electric signals from the outside, so how do we know we are really seeing what we're seeing, what we're doing. In all our lives, people keeps on saying how good freedom is, but are we really free? Our brain has been controlling everything we feel, see, taste, and touch. If we are controlled throughout our lives, what makes us different from slaves? Wouldn't it be better if we just die off, commit suicide, and get real freedom from this world. The poem, "pity this buzy monster, manunkind" by E.E. Cummings, "Progress is a comfortable diesease:" All the evolutions and the technology we are creating, are constantly meaningless, it all leads to destruction and death. So, basically, we human beings are just trying to kill ourselves now by surviving. And why not die now? Our existance is just like a grain of sand compared to the universe. The civilization we have built and left behind are nothing but rust, according to "Summer holiday" by Robinson Jerffers.
What is the point of survival? The point of survival is to reproduce is to pass on your precious genes to the next generation. After a few thousand years, the world will be gone, so whats the point of passing on the genes, survival!
If survival is so important, why is earth the only planet we know where organisms tries to survive, or the only thing that tries to survive. What is the point of trying to be alive?

Stephen Lee and Ming Yen