The True Nature of Earthlings

Angel Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:21 pm

We do wonder about the mysterious.

After all, it is a natural human tendency to do so. Often times intangible elements in life that seem far beyond our ordinary perceptions cannot be immediately grasped through our average understanding, manners of thinking that are inevitably marred by individual beliefs. What we don’t see, what we can’t see, what we can’t touch, and what we simply cannot reach, all appear to us as images or scenes that are not characterized by clarity. Our place is firmly rooted in the present, the duration of current time in which we must engage with others and our surroundings.

So now it is known to us that we, as human beings, tend to both live steadily in the present – the being-centralized boundary of the now – and wander off into a distant field of memories and yearnings that sees no restrictive lines.

Are we really existing and functioning in the realm of physical reality, of substance, and of presence at the same time? Or are we being watched and monitored by an outer, supreme force, an unknown entity that identifies with or represents our beings?

This then leads me to ponder upon the possibility that we are not really all beings but, rather, these outer forces are, and that we are nothing more than physical appearances, transparent in our daily operations with no evident proof that we really are here.

Thank you for taking part in this discussion - happy discussing! Very Happy

These are the external sites that will help with the discussion:

http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=14970#14970
http://forum.visionary-spiritual-institute.com.au/showthread.php?p=8191#post8191
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=156268&st=0&

Vicky Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:29 pm

ANGELCHANG!

Are we really existing and functioning in the realm of physical reality, of substance, and of presence at the same time? Or are we being watched and monitored by an outer, supreme force, an unknown entity that identifies with or represents our beings?

Wow…this is by far the most difficult moderator topic I’ve stumbled upon. So, are we all present in this physical reality? Well, I’m not really sure. It seems that we are all part of this physical reality. However, come to think of it, we have established that we are all part of this universal being, right? That the waves and frequencies that makes us up all trace back to an “original colossal pot of soup.” In that way, perhaps the Universal Being is the “supreme force” that is monitoring us? This may be possible because all objects of the physical domain are only made possible by the “energies” that are derived and “arranged” by the Universal Being?

So are we really here? Define we. Define “I.” What makes us “us?” We are here, in the sense that we are all part of the Universal Being. We are at this present time, we have always been and will always been. We might end up “existing” in this universe in different forms, but we are always here. However, if you define “we” as “Angel” or “Victoria,” then “Angel” and “Victoria” aren’t always here. The fragments and energies that make up Angel and Victoria will always be here. Yet, the exactly array of these energies that created Victoria and Angel will not always be there.

We are functioning in the realm of physical reality because part of the energy that creates us also makes up the ego mind. It is the ego mind that gives us the feeling of “I.” It is what makes us feel as if there is an “I” existing right now.

Well, there was my attempt to answer your really deep question. I hope that helped!

joyceychen Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:51 pm

wow ok the first time i read your question, angel, i thought of:
well, ok, i could bring in religion and that would combine your two choices: we're both physically here but we are also controlled by a higher being. i mean, why not? that seems reasonable, work-able.

then i read vicky's first paragraph and i suddenly, spontaneously thought of a rainbow. rainbows are made up of the scattering of light through a prism. they look so real and physically there, but are they really? can we ever actually find the "end of the rainbow"? but i dont know, we can stick our hands through a "rainbow" right? because it's just light, our hands can go through it. but that's not what it is for us humans/other "more physical" objects. hm....do the light particles move so that our hand can go through it? (think of gas particles and how there is so much space between them. maybe there's enough room for a hand to stick through no problem). HAHA, maybe this is what it's like for us! something "bigger" than us sees us as very spaced out objects. haha, sorry, that was kinda random, but that thought came into my mind and i felt like posting it on Very Happy

dunno how much of that actually answered your question Razz

Angel Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:44 pm

Hi everybody! Very Happy

I think I have posed a rather complicated question (which seems like a rather tough and broad concept to handle), so I hope I am able to simplify it a little with these simpler and more “understandable” questions:

Many people are positive that we “live in the Now” and that all things are physical and “real.” This may seem undoubtedly true, given our pure conceptions of the tangible elements in life. So, what makes people so sure that we actually do live in the present, the Now? What is there in life (or in anything) that supports this wide assertion?

Also, try to think about things such as blanking out or daydreaming (previously discussed in Angela’s discussion), or anything else that may possibly have to do with not being “conscious” in the present. When we do these things, where are we? Meaning, perhaps, what dimension or plan are we on? And what may possibly be the reason for us to enter these dimensions/planes?

Again, happy discussing! Thank you to those who have replied so far!
(Responses to these replies will come later).

joyceychen Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:13 pm

just some quick thoughts

what you posted above, it's so like the movie The Matrix. it's like how do we know for sure we're living in the real world? except now the question's slightly altered

hm...but other than living in the present, how else can we live? dwelling in the past and reminiscing all the time? getting ahead of your time and thinking of crazy ideas for the future?
for living in the Now. we actually werent really aware that we should do so until reading the packets Ms Kay gave us. so what were we living in before we gained such knowledge?

(sorry this is like a bunch of questions, but i felt maybe these could also help clarify some things?)

Vicky Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:26 pm

Hi Angel!

So, what makes people so sure that we actually do live in the present, the Now? When we do these things, where are we?

Are we really living in the present? Most people, who, as Joycie has stated, have not read the packets that Ms. Kay handed out to us, do not know the somewhat “dominating” and perhaps “destructive” nature of the ego mind’s incessant bickering. In that case, these people are constantly living in the past. They are judging situations based on past observations. People are sure that they “live in the present” because they interpret the phrase “living in the phrase” merely as “the physical body being here in the present.” So in a sense, we do live in the present – at least, our bodies do because the “waves” and “frequencies” that make us up are existing in the present. I’d like to this that we’re always here – it is just our thoughts that are not always “here,” at this moment. When you say “here,” I’m assuming that you mean “at this particular moment.” So, no, we are not always “here” because our ego mind constantly conjures flashbacks and view current problems the same way it did before.

So where are we when we daydream or blank out? We’re in the past, I guess, or we’re just lost in this “fantasy” world created by the ego mind. Actually, I wouldn’t really know. This topic kind of relates to the question “are daydreams the result of the ego mind’s activity or the Being’s control?” If it is the first, then, during daydreams, we’re probably reminiscing about the past and indulging ourselves in the ego mind’s “fantasies.” If it is the latter, then perhaps our dreams are actually the real world – much like the Matrix.

Angel Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:19 pm

Although our presence may be situated in the Now, we still may never know exactly, for sure, if the physical realm is the actual home of our beings, the truest and purest form inside the body. It may exist on a spiritual realm, or it may exist on another realm. Also, if it is indeed the Universal Being that is “monitoring” us, as Vicky proposed, then would that also be restricting us and our potential energies (just a thought). The “fragments and energies” that we are composed of seem to linger on after we pass away, and either return to nature, or enter the bodies of other people (bringing in reincarnation) – is this still the present, then? Do these bits of the “original body” (if there is an original body at all … is there?) exist in a different “Now,” a different state of being (that has very much to do, I think, with time and the passing of time)?

Joyce, you talked about the rainbow and its seemingly “invisible” quality. Let’s talk about the possible “invisibility” of the Now, the body, the being, the ego-mind … or any other element that reassures us of our presence in the present domain. Why do they reinforce our presence (why are they there?), and what certain qualities or properties do they have that allows us to think that we really are here?

We all think (positively so, I must say) that we live in the present. And that may be so. But we never know, really, what is out there. Yes – out there. This can be referring to another realm, another world, spirits, ghosts, invisible things that float by us … things we can’t see or can’t picture clearly. A rather scientific mode is activated when we say we live in the present because everything we presently see, feel, and touch is made out of particles and materials. But what if we were to think in a non-scientific way? There are always “physical barriers,” as is mentioned in Shawanne’s discussion, but what could this signify about our beings? Are our beings narrow-minded (that really just came from nowhere).

Yes, this is indeed like The Matrix (thank you, Joyce and Vicky Smile

). Actually, the movie was what pretty much inspired me to pose this awfully complex question Very Happy

. Just a really straightforward question: Do you think there can be two worlds where we exist at the same time? Why or why not? Also, how can we be so certain the ego-mind is also living in the present (except when it shows flashbacks of the past inside one’s head)? Could it be that the ego-mind is tricking us (DDDEEELLLUUUSSSIIIOOONNN) and not letting us see the real identity of things, or our own real identities?

Again, happy discussing Laughing

!

joannneee Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:12 am

We all think (positively so, I must say) that we live in the present. And that may be so. But we never know, really, what is out there. Yes – out there. This can be referring to another realm, another world, spirits, ghosts, invisible things that float by us … things we can’t see or can’t picture clearly. A rather scientific mode is activated when we say we live in the present because everything we presently see, feel, and touch is made out of particles and materials. But what if we were to think in a non-scientific way? There are always “physical barriers,” as is mentioned in Shawanne’s discussion, but what could this signify about our beings? Are our beings narrow-minded (that really just came from nowhere)

"When your senses delude you, there is no one you can trust."

Is this true? I remember hearing this somewhere. It seems to talk about your topic.

Whether or not this is the present - I would think that it has always been the present. If you remember Siddhartha (hah, my favorite book to quote ;D) he talks about the endless flow of the "river of time". There is no time, and in turn, there is only the present, and no past, future. Whether or not our world is real, whether or not we are living in a world of our minds brings us back to the most fundamental properties of ourselves. When we live without thought, we do not think for a moment that we do not belong. We exist, and that is all that matters, sometimes.

Yet, when we think, we come to the conclusion that somehow, we may not be even existing in this world. But the thing about "Essence", if we put it this way, or about reality, is that there is no exact truth that you can call reality. There is what makes up the past, present, and future, and combines everything to make the concept of eternity and never ending. We live eternally in the way that we will always be made out of something that we can call Essence, or particles, or even atoms. But in the end, existence is proved in the way that we're here doing whatever we're doing as of now.

I just lost my train of thought. Will get back later.

proey Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:00 am

LOL this is super... Matrix-y. Reminds me of the math test on friday. yayy

Anyways, to simply answer your question on how do you know if you're in the real world, in your real identity or not---faith. Wyant's favorite thing to say about the Matrix, "thoughts create reality," I think is the essence of what we each think is real. Is there one single reality that all of us are bound to? I think we all live inside our own heads.

Despite that, I agree with Joanne, that we all exist as part of the Essence, which is basically the only thing that really really connects all of us. That is where the reality is drawn from, and since we all have our own signature, special personalities that are derived from the Essence, we still each have our own thoughts, and realities. A dude in a coma could be dreaming about bunnies and grassy hills when we perceive him to be in a secluded, lonely hospital room.

And then, think about all of those miraculously cured cancer cases. Is that part of the physical reality that we can perceive? It's the mental reality that the cancer patient brings upon himself, and it is not necessarily an alternate reality, if you know what i mean.... Razz

. Like, what if this physical reality that we know to be "real" is actually some dream?

I always had that thought.... Wouldn't it be super cool if we live a life within every dream? That right now, we are actually asleep, dreaming about ourselves dreaming about what we are doing right now. In that case every "day" is a lifetime passed, and we don't even know it. Time only exists in one reality, and it cannot govern all of them at once. So yeah, basically what Joey said--we exist and that's all that matters.

John Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:10 am

As I see it, the true nature of the earth human is the integration of our higher self and our subconscious with our human conscious awareness.

It is through our intuitive nature that we can sense the presence of our expanded selves.

John

Vicky Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:52 pm

Could it be that the ego-mind is tricking us (DDDEEELLLUUUSSSIIIOOONNN) and not letting us see the real identity of things, or our own real identities?

Is that really true though? What constitutes our “real identity?” Isn’t it the ego mind that creates a sort of “self-identity” for us? The Being, even though it knows that it is currently in a state where it is seemingly “separate” from others, it is still part of the universal whole. I’d like to think that the ego mind is what draws the distinction between “you” and “me.” It gives itself an identity, which will allow it to manage danger survival. I mean, realistically, if you don’t give yourself an identity, then when a lion comes strolling by, you wouldn’t be alerted to run for your life. Another reason that the ego mind “labels” itself is to justify the acts that it longs to perform in order to gain more luxuries. If the ego mind refers to everything as “we,” then it obviously cannot as effectively manipulate the “host” into retrieving items of its desire.

Please excuse my short response. My brain is currently on low battery, which I will need to study for chem. I’ll be back!

Jason Jr. Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:00 pm

Okay? This is awkward.

we are not real, then what is real. As Vicky said previously, our Ego minds categorize and make stereotypes For fear.

We can say our very existence is based on Fear. we are afraid that the human race will die out so we reproduce, we don't want to be harmed, so we seek power. we are afraid of hard work or also known as being Slothful, one of the seven sins, there fore we have technology to help us reduce this work. everything we do is the result of the seven sins and these sins come from fear.

Our higher being is there, but do we always listen to it.

Angel Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:47 pm

HEY EVERYBODY!

There is no time, and in turn, there is only the present, and no past, future. Whether or not our world is real, whether or not we are living in a world of our minds brings us back to the most fundamental properties of ourselves. When we live without thought, we do not think for a moment that we do not belong. We exist, and that is all that matters, sometimes.

Hey Joey! Nice to hear from you Very Happy

It is interesting how you say there is no time. Perhaps there is the flow of time only: this flow alone seemingly makes up one dimension, one presence, which is the Now. It knows no future, no past, except the zone in which it presently functions. But let’s talk about life in general in the physical realm, the realm that is monitored (or at least our actions are monitored) and “controlled” by the ego-mind. The ego-mind propels each of us to think in individual ways, so that in some manner we are more or less detached from the Universal Being and the whole interconnection of things – meaning, we can never be at the same level or frequency with others at all times. Is the “flow of time” a general characterization of the quality of time, or does this flow exist within the individual, or the being of the individual, and can be reached through a series of profound thought, meditation, or self-reflection? Can this flow of time be stopped, so that elements of the past and future come streaming in? We do seem to live with thought. That is where the ego-mind comes in, right? The ego-mind fluctuates in its frequencies of thought that are in turn influenced by outer surroundings/the environment, and thus our perceptions are marred (where prejudices come in). So what about conformity? Existence, in its own name, sounds to me like the only thing that matters (as both you and Proey pointed out). But are we actually aware of our own existences? (This came up because I just mentioned conformity – perhaps we think we “exist” due to conformity … which can also be a sort of “belonging,” no? A belonging to the spiritual/physical plane, or to the Universal Being, perhaps?).

So, we’ve had a thought that it is through “faith” and a general belief in your “own” reality which asserts each of our own realities. This reality that you speak of, Proey – is this a physical reality, something tangible, or is it a reality on another plane (something that may be untouchable)?

I always had that thought.... Wouldn't it be super cool if we live a life within every dream? That right now, we are actually asleep, dreaming about ourselves dreaming about what we are doing right now. In that case every "day" is a lifetime passed, and we don't even know it. Time only exists in one reality, and it cannot govern all of them at once.

Ooooooh. I’ve also had that thought, Proey. HIGH FIVE! What if we really are dreaming right now, as Proey proposed, about our every action and every move? It seems kind of frightening to me, really. (But we mustn’t be afraid of what we cannot possibly touch, see, or feel!). If our lives were indeed a dream (or several dreams), would this dream then not be the doings of some higher, supreme force? This force is yet unknown, and is more intangible than ever. What do you guys think? Surprised

Vicky, really insightful point there! Yes, the ego-mind does love to label things and dissect things into even smaller things and be all judgmental about these little pieces, doesn’t it? Razz

Yes, it is a fairly complicated element in all of our lives. The “luxuries,” as you mentioned, that the ego-mind wishes to acquire for itself – are these individual luxuries or luxuries that follow along the lines of conformity? Conformity. The ego-mind also loves to follow (other than dictate us through the day) and activate its snappy mode and drive us to accomplishing all our goals. Societal norms, trends, fashions … all these things – that have to do with terrible excessive consumerism – are what the ego-mind also pushes us to agree to. If we are seemingly made “followers” every day in our lives (and followers in a generally “wider scope,” not just in the classroom, office, or in society, if you know what I mean Cool

), then who, or what, acts as the “leader”?

As John mentioned (brilliantly stated, by the way Smile

), the true nature of humans may be the integration of higher selves and our subconscious, together with the human consciousness, or awareness. This is the meshing together, or combination, or interconnection, of all the more “spiritual” elements in our bodies. Together, these elements from the extremely high consciousness, or something else. What do you guys think this combination forms? And what does it do, and what is its purpose? Does it guide us? If yes, where to?

Fionaaa :) Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:56 pm

Are we really existing and functioning in the realm of physical reality, of substance, and of presence at the same time? Or are we being watched and monitored by an outer, supreme force, an unknown entity that identifies with or represents our beings?

This then leads me to ponder upon the possibility that we are not really all beings but, rather, these outer forces are, and that we are nothing more than physical appearances, transparent in our daily operations with no evident proof that we really are here.

Angel, fascinating questions. I have been wondering about these for a long time.
Look at yourself, at all the things you've accomplished in life. Would/Do you really believe that these successes and accomplishments came from nothing less than the mere physical appearance that is yourself?

Does our need for proof and evidence of our existences show our insecurity and weak belief in ourselves? Do we really NEED assurance from some higher form to tell us that yes, humans are important, they are not just physical appearances with no apparent purpose in this universe. Yes that is very human - always looking for something to make themselves more important.

What would we do if someday something lowers itself from the celestial heavens and tells us that we are of nigh importance and completely futile in the functioning of this world?
Would humanity collapse, since it seems like the structure/ support of our existences is the belief in something "higher" for ourselves (the myriads of religions)?
Once this structure is taken away, would humans go back to living like their wild companions in the forests and plains?

Also, what if the opposite of what you are saying is true, like we are the OPPOSITE of just being physical appearances. We might be divine beings trapped in a physical form.
Don't you have these moments when you just feel trapped in your body. Something along the lines of "what the heck am I doing here? Being a human? Why is my consciousness confined in this small area with nothing but limitations?"
Sometimes it feels like I could almost break free, and leave this place that's so full of unanswered questions...
=P

To angel & proey: the dream/life idea is an insanely enchanting thought. but what would happen when the dreaming us wakes up? =O

Kenny Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:23 am

Angel wrote:
Ooooooh. I’ve also had that thought, Proey. HIGH FIVE! What if we really are dreaming right now, as Proey proposed, about our every action and every move?

Then our real awake self's world would probably suck balls, most of the time, my dreams are better than the reality. In my dreams, I can fly from taiwan to America in the span of two seconds, which is also, incidentally, the amount of time it takes me to build a house at the same time Also, I can get a plausible answer to phils question of, "why is groping?" You know what else I can do? I can attempt to drink a glass of water, but die, and respawn in the middle of the grand canyon while hearing ray tell me, "you can't do that, it's a trainer pokemon."

Anyways, yeah, you get the point, crazy ass stuff. And if the best we can come up with in a dream is this world, then damn, while it'd be different, it'd prolly be a whole lot more limited. But i dunno, maybe its the other way around, either way, it'll keep me happy in the time it takes for me to figure out how this new world works Razz

Vicky Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:54 pm

If we are seemingly made “followers” every day in our lives (and followers in a generally “wider scope,” not just in the classroom, office, or in society, if you know what I mean then who, or what, acts as the “leader”?

Because I believe in freewill, I think that everyone is their own leader as well as follower. Society can’t make you conform if you don’t want to. You choose whether or not you want to follow the trends. Yes, I’m aware that social conditioning, to an extent, affects the way we perceive things and act. The ego mind, as Ms. Kay said two days ago, is cultivated mainly by experience. It, therefore, leads us based on its idea of what is “right” to ensure survival for the individual. We, then, are followers because we’ve become so accustomed to handing over our power to the ego mind, that we end up blindly following the path that it has deemed “worthy of us.” I don’t actually believe that the ego mind likes to “follow trends” – it is generally egocentric, so it would make sense that it’d want its own style). Yet, it doesn’t like the way it feels when it doesn’t follow a certain trend, and people start looking at it condescendingly. Therefore, it is motivated by itself to dress “in style,” instead of just blindly following the trends. It knows it purpose. It is the “leader” of an individual who hands over all freewill to the ego mind. SO, similarly, we are followers because we, ourselves, follow our ego mind – usually – without much contemplation or hesitation.

Angel Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:25 pm

Hey everybody! Very Happy

As Jason pointed out, perhaps our existence is based on fear. Perhaps we are so afraid and frightened of certain aspects of life, such as death, the afterlife, social and economical hardships and difficulties, etc., that we want to both create and dominate. This “creativity” takes the form, as Jason mentioned, of technology that helps us with our workload. Domination also is the gaining and centralizing of power, which really is greed. And come to think about it, all humans are, more or less, greedy (to different degrees, of course). Also, Fiona pointed out that humans are always grasping chances at making themselves seem more important than they really are (we are so terribly influenced by our ego-minds here!) But where does this “fear” actually come from? Are we always aware of this fear that is either within or outside of us? Our ego-minds drive us into a certain way of thinking and/or believing, so that shapes our faith, in a manner. Does the ego-mind block out or prevent the rising of fear? Is the ego-mind aware of the presence of this fear, and does it know fear’s origin? Also, like Jason proposed, our “higher being is there, but do we actually listen to it”? I suppose that the ego-mind comes in the way of the interconnection between inner beings and the Universal Being, and stops the flow of personal “growth” at times. What do you guys think?

Just a thought: a person in one of my external forums suggested that we could all be “spirits having a human experience.” What do you guys think about that?

Would humanity collapse, since it seems like the structure/ support of our existences is the belief in something "higher" for ourselves (the myriads of religions)?

Fiona: excellent questions!
As you mentioned in your post, we exist as beings who seek for a “higher” belief in something, an idea or a concept that is higher than ourselves and all that is physical. Perhaps religion is made in this way; it is the reflection of our constant search for a something higher. Could it be that we are in search of a higher truth? Humanity is composed of, surely, more things than just the search for a higher truth. There is also the search for the reason of existence, among many other questions that individuals have.

Also, as Kenneth mentioned, the world in our dreams is seemingly a much better world than the “physical” world – and this probably is true, too. In the physical world we are so consumed all the time in the offerings of materialism and society; our ego-minds chain us to their own will. As Fiona asked, what would happen if this “dream” were to stop? Would everything come to an abrupt halt? Where would the physical plane go (if it does disappear at all)? Can we wake up voluntarily from this “dream”? Or are we restricted by some outer, unknown force, which constrains us and even worse so, binds us to belonging in the dream? (Is that why sometimes life is a “complete nightmare”? Could those troubling times in life signify the wish to break free from this world, but being so unfortunately unable to do so?

The ego mind, as Ms. Kay said two days ago, is cultivated mainly by experience. It, therefore, leads us based on its idea of what is “right” to ensure survival for the individual. We, then, are followers because we’ve become so accustomed to handing over our power to the ego mind, that we end up blindly following the path that it has deemed “worthy of us.”

As Vicky reinforced, the ego-mind is cultivated “mainly by experience.” This cultivation comes through a series of happenings that all just seem to require the same manners of reaction and behavior that “ensure our survival.” This, in some sense, makes the ego-mind sound helpless to some certain degree. The ego-mind is indeed subject to outer surroundings and individual experiences. Is it possible, then, for humans to “shift” or transform the frequency of their recurring experiences? Do we have the power to stop this continual flow of having the same things happen over and over again? If yes, where does this source of power (however subtle it may be) come from?

In class, Ms. Kay mentioned the “awakening of the spiritual consciousness.” If we activate this mode of consciousness, there is a chance that we may be able to leave the physical plane. But what do you guys think defines the awakening of the spiritual consciousness? What qualities or characteristics does this spiritual consciousness have?

Let’s talk about déjà vu (also mentioned in class). The feeling of “oh, yes, we’ve done this before!” occurs to us, and sometimes we feel as if we’ve been in that certain place, doing that certain thing, but we just don’t know when or how we did it. It all just seems like an ambiguous scene, a vague memory of our own actions. What could this possibly mean? Would this hint at a different dimension, perhaps? Where would these “past” actions take place, and what are their relations to the physical plane?

Nick_A Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:41 pm

Hi Angel

In class, Ms. Kay mentioned the “awakening of the spiritual consciousness.” If we activate this mode of consciousness, there is a chance that we may be able to leave the physical plane. But what do you guys think defines the awakening of the spiritual consciousness? What qualities or characteristics does this spiritual consciousness have?

You're probably not going to like this but I should mention it. You have to decide if transcendence and spiritual consciousness means a greater reality or escapsim to you.

If you mean a greater reality, awakening requires suffering while escapism can be delightful flights of fantasy.

“We must prefer real hell to an imaginary paradise.” Simone Weil

Transcendence is not imagining a higher reality but rather being open to conciously experience what we ARE in order to transcend it. That is why it is so rare. We prefer imaginary paradise to real hell.

Andy.S Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:34 pm

existence is based on fear
But where does this “fear” actually come from? Are we always aware of this fear that is either within or outside of us?

The ego mind creates fear. Fear is...like a defense mechanism to keep our survival chances higher than it would otherwise be. Very good that you pointed this out...because agreeing to the fact that only the mind has fear makes Being look totally pure...but is it?
Today Ms.Kay talked about reincarnated soul pieces that manifest in our soul. In one of her stories, a man feared poison because his previous life was killed in that way. What is contradicting is that this fear was not from his own experience...but from the depths of his soul. Assuming that souls are combinations of previous souls ....the only logic I can see is that a soul is able to carry "fear" and "negative emotions".

So what you say about mind blocking out fear may be right. If fear is capable of being passed on in cumulative amounts...oh...I can imagine how horrifying the world would become. This is probably why we have the mind since it grounds us to reality instead of us having too much access to "previous terrors". However, the trade off from isolating "terror" is to also isolate peace from the Universal Being.

But what I am currently confused is about fear itself. If it is not only a product of the mind...then could there be the UNIVERSAL FEAR? Like a specific branch within the Universal Being? Does this mean there are many universal "somethings"? And does each of these Universal Thingys have its own realm?

Steph C Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:00 pm

Let’s talk about déjà vu (also mentioned in class). The feeling of “oh, yes, we’ve done this before!” occurs to us, and sometimes we feel as if we’ve been in that certain place, doing that certain thing, but we just don’t know when or how we did it. It all just seems like an ambiguous scene, a vague memory of our own actions. What could this possibly mean? Would this hint at a different dimension, perhaps? Where would these “past” actions take place, and what are their relations to the physical plane?

We talked about this today too! What can these deja vus mean? We considered the possibility that they might be past lives seeping through the veil of our mind and memory and manifesting themselves. As for different dimension, that's possible too? Perhaps deja vus are just spontaneous sources of energies that stimulate our cellular memory. These past actions probably took place in a setting/circumstance similar to the one you are in when you experience the deja vu, so that the external cues would provoke the feeling. We can't prove any of this, clearly, but it's definitely worth pondering as all(as I remember?) in 10A raised their hands to having had such experiences.

Angel Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:24 pm

Hi everybody! Cool

Transcendence is not imagining a higher reality but rather being open to conciously experience what we ARE in order to transcend it. That is why it is so rare. We prefer imaginary paradise to real hell.

As Nick_A mentioned, there are different realms to be entered once the spiritual consciousness is awakened. But what is this awakening? From our discussions, we can see that this awakening is the decision and/or act to transcend. This transcendence, this leaping over into another sphere of being – is it leaping over into a greater reality? Or are we running, running and hiding away from our fears, thus “imagining” a higher reality? How can we define “experiencing the self”?

What is contradicting is that this fear was not from his own experience...but from the depths of his soul. Assuming that souls are combinations of previous souls ....the only logic I can see is that a soul is able to carry "fear" and "negative emotions".

It could be, as Andy said, that souls combine and interact with each other, only to result in the accumulation of all feelings and emotions that were previously within the depths of the individual souls. How, then, do souls connect? Do they interconnect through the realm of the Universal Being, binding once they enter that “realm”?

could there be the UNIVERSAL FEAR? Like a specific branch within the Universal Being? Does this mean there are many universal "somethings"? And does each of these Universal Thingys have its own realm?

Or do these negative emotions arise from a different and more specific dimension that is from a “Universal Fear”? Is it also possible, as Andy asked, for the Universal Being to branch out into smaller units of universal elements? If so, what elements do you think there could be? Also, would these “universal elements” be able to exist on another plane, such as the spiritual plane?

A person in one of my external forums proposed that it is actually individual emotions that we create that are actually defined and characterized as reality. Where do emotions really come from? Are they a result of the ego-mind, the being, or a combination of both? Our perceptions are inevitably marred by our ego-minds (and their strong domination over the body), and so our emotions and feelings are also a result of our interactions with society, the surrounding environment, etc. Do our emotions represent (and this is just a thought) our consciousness, the awareness of things both within and beyond the body/physical plane? If so, where else could this consciousness interact or exist (on another plane, perhaps – one that is not the one we exist on –?)

We considered the possibility that they might be past lives seeping through the veil of our mind and memory and manifesting themselves.

As Steph mentioned, déjà vu can be the result of the rising of past lives – but where do these “forms of energy” come from, and in what form does the past life come in?

Steph C Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:02 am

where do these “forms of energy” come from, and in what form does the past life come in?

We discussed cellular memory yesterday, perhaps though our minds and/or beings are not consiously aware of maybe past lives, our cells are. If you think about it, when people die their cells decompose and give rise to new beings. So perhaps this energy is contained within our cells and atoms. But again, none of this can be proven, and deja vus are very shaky, if not completely unreliable indicators of reincarnation.

John Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:52 am

I am inclined to think that cellular memory plays a big part in our lives. How that works is very speculative. I am inclined to think a lot has to do with information in our DNA.

John

Angel Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:23 pm

Hi!



As both Steph and John mentioned, the true forms of past lives and perhaps all generations of life, are stored within the tiniest components of our bodies – our cells and atoms. What does this have to do with reality and what really is real? Meaning, how can we use this information of cellular memory to determine what is real and what is not? Our DNA is encoded in us, thus making it the foundation of one’s life. Do you think it’s possible for DNA to sustain life not only for one lifetime, but for many lifetimes? What do multiple lives or past lives mean? And what does consciousness have to do with this? Is it possible to have multiple consciousnesses as well? If so, on what planes could these consciousnesses appear?

John Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:08 pm

Most of my ideas and insights on the true nature of a human is derived from my experiences using channeled information. That material is extensive in scope and involves multiple sources. We could all easily get lost in various aspects of it.

I have grown a comfort level with some concepts. The idea of the higher self, diverse subconscious energies and points of view, and multiple layers of the human conscious awareness. These views are a result of my imagined telepathic experiences.

When it comes to DNA and cellular memory, I see modern science as a source as well. For example there is a school of thought in science that every atom has 11 dimensions. Channeled material says there is actually 12 and that science is not counting the base.

Consider the soul as energetic essence. How would it deploy itself in a human expression? It would want to support the purpose for its physical expression. It would be thoughtful in how it did this. It would also be efficent, I suspect.

All I can say is that the popular idea that we have a lot of junk DNA is not logical. That is if in fact we are a product of design and not chance.

John

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