Unveiling the "Stalker's" Rudiments

Vicky Mon May 25, 2009 8:04 pm

Hi guys!

Of the millions of people who walk the planet today, there are comparatively very few of us who are able to successfully block our ego mind and tune in on our intuition, or our essence. The ego mind, which as defined by Osho and other philosophers, is what causes us to feel irrational feelings of rage and fear. The ego mind combined with societal conditioning, which installs a sense of “insignificance” within us, is what brings about these negative feelings. However, beyond social conditioning, what causes the ego mind to want to amplify such pessimistic emotions in us? What are the rudiments of the ego mind that make it so overbearing and so obsessive? What is its true nature? What makes it so compatible with the “hazardous” societal conditioning? It is almost stalker-like by its perpetual manifestation in us. In other words, why does it need to be so controlling? What stimulates this response from it?

And by the way, there is another question that I would like to ask you guys. I will probably post the other question on Wednesday. For now, though, let's first devour this question! Very Happy

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Andy.S Mon May 25, 2009 8:33 pm

FIRST POST!

I think I have said this in a previous forum....But anyways; my idea is that the ego mind's basic function is to strive for survival. It wants to live, and to do so it wants the host to improve...in a negative way. If you ask why the ego mind is negative, maybe “hazardous societal conditioning" has something to do with it. It is also possible that the ego mind could be beneficial/ neutral until the external corruption sets in and transform this "ego-mind" into an obsessive monster.
But this can be contradicted since the ego mind is universally capable of turning bad...or is it? Hmm...perhaps before we answer this question, we should first examine whether the ego mind and its influences are universal?
That should be a good start.

Philly_CS Mon May 25, 2009 8:44 pm

First!
Haha, jk.

Okay, anyway onto your question: why the heck is the ego mind so controlling and so obsessive. Well, let's look at it this way. Ego mind might actually be trying to help, though it messes up everything. Let's go back to the beginnings of homo sapiens, shall we (why is it that everytime I talk about the ego mind, I always end up in bio)? Again with the lion example, if one responds to the sight of lion as "oh, the essence of everything! Let me feel everything with the magical feeling!" while dancing around, yeah, you'll end up with a dead guy. If you have a guy who goes like "there's a lion everywhere!" and runs away at nothing, you'll have a tired guy, but you won't have a dead guy. So I guess the ego mind evolved into this very paranoid thing that suspects everything as evil and dangerous. But since evolution is an excruciatingly slow process, it would explain why we are still holding on to "there's a lion everywhere!" mindset. In order to protect ourselves from this 'danger,' the ego mind has to take charge to make sure we don't die. Of course, when you look at it from an evolutionary perspective, this would also explain why the mind is afraid of the new. Let's say this guy finds a berry, something he hasn't seen before. Now if the man try it, he will, at best, leave feeling good; at worse, he will be left dead.

In the recent millenniums, there has been a decreasing reliance on the ego mind for survival. I really find no need for the ego mind, at least, no absolute need nowadays. So really, everytime I get upset or mad over some trivial things, I find myself annoyed at the false alarm. You can't really blame the ego mind, it's just trying to protect you from predators (like, predators that will kill and eat you).

EDIT: Darn you Andy! Now I'm second. Grr

Angela Mon May 25, 2009 9:07 pm

The ego mind, which as defined by Osho and other philosophers, is what causes us to feel irrational feelings of rage and fear. The ego mind combined with societal conditioning, which installs a sense of “insignificance” within us, is what brings about these negative feelings.

I have an urge to start thinking about the evolution of the brain…..but I will start off from another point of view first. The ego mind is loud and tends to dominate our Being, which is quiet. I suddenly had a random thought. The ego mind is not able to raise awareness of how vast and great the universe it. All it does it lock itself up into its little safety box and tries to do everything to make things solid and tangible – referring to the past, etc. The Being, on the other hand, is able to “meditate” and to interconnect and relate with other Beings and the Universal Being. I think it can be thought of as different stages except us humans happen to have both of them working and functioning together. Im not saying that the ego mind is bad though. The ego mind perhaps does not really know its existence and identity like the Being does, therefore, it wants to acknowledge its pressence by amplifying pessimistic emotions within us and also trying to take control over us. Many times, the ego mind creates “unecessary” voices within us, some which cause fear, others which cause doubt.

The ego mind….more “primitive” if u will… Just like Phillip mentioned in the example about the lion. The ego mind is more direct and straight forward in what is wants to present and how it wants to act. When the ego mind creates “unnecessary” ideas, it does not linger between what kind of ideas to create and what not to create. It just shoots out ideas, which is why sometimes we feel like our heads are about to explode from the ego mind put into overdrive. From my own experience, if I do not raise awareness of my ego mind and step out of it, many times I feel overwhelmed by it without even noticing it. The ego mind will always be there, and we cannot completely shut it off. A way to step out of the ego mind is by allowing our Beings to dominate and to come in control over the ego mind. The opening of our channel of intuition and allowing our Being to connect with the Universal Being is what allows essence to flow through. This power is greater than the power of the ego mind because within this bond holds unlimited potential to create and to bring out change.

joannneee Mon May 25, 2009 10:08 pm

The ego mind combined with societal conditioning, which installs a sense of “insignificance” within us, is what brings about these negative feelings. However, beyond social conditioning, what causes the ego mind to want to amplify such pessimistic emotions in us? What are the rudiments of the ego mind that makes it so overbearing and so obsessive? What is its true nature? What makes it so compatible with the “hazardous” societal conditioning? It is almost stalker-like by its perpetual manifestation in us. In other words, why does it need to be so controlling? What stimulates this response from it?

I suppose the ego-mind, in its most basic components, is merely a tool of survival that has developed a kind of "consciousness"; it turns into an almost living thing with the way it dominates our thoughts and makes us believe that it is who we are. However, we have learned to refute this assumption through learning about the difference between the ego-mind and the being. The ego-mind, I believe, is a machine developed to ensure survival, as I believe many others before me have stated. As Phillip wrote in his reply, it stays in a constant state of paranoia, since in the time when we need to rely on our instincts and our physical powers to survive, about 250,000 years ago, we have used our ego-mind to stop us from becoming too friendly with lions and the like.

I would think that the ego-mind began relatively simple - imagine a tiny piece of electronics that has yet no use, but is able to transmit wavelengths to another similar electronic. The ego-mind might have started like that: no relatively complex usage, only a simple machine to ensure that we survived. However, due to evolution and the like the human brain continued to develop, and as a result the ego-mind began to evolve too! It evolves from a simple piece of machinery to a radio, and from a radio to a corded phone, and so on. It began to develop its own thoughts, like something you would see out of i-robot. Thinking from a computer, who wants to take over the world. Sounds pretty familiar to me.

The ego-mind starts out from a single survival unit into something that also helps us interact and understand - albeit a little superficially - what other people are saying. It maintains society, for now society is what allows us to survive. Technology is what gives us our current lifestyle as of now, and so the ego-mind tries its darn hardest to let us know that, and live that way.

Hannah Park Mon May 25, 2009 10:25 pm

Well, if what Phillip is saying is correct, the ego mind is operating with a "better be paranoid than sorry" mindset. Which does make sense when we live in an environement of unexpected dangers everywhere; being paranoid might save your life someday! But it would probably ruin one's life while saving it, and we'll all end up with an anxiety disorder...which might lead to OCD. According to wiki (Yes, I used wiki. Deal with it Twisted Evil

) "when a sufferer(of OCD) begins to acknowledge these intrusive thoughts, the sufferer then develops anxiety based on the dread that something bad will happen. The sufferer feels compelled to voluntarily perform irrational, time-consuming physical behaviors to diminish the anxiety." Doesn't this sound like ego-mind overdrive? It does sound like a very extreme form of defense mechanism; those who were overly paranoid probably did surved longer to pass on their genes...which leads to: is the "loudness" of the ego mind genetically influence?

But the theory above is kind of depressing...we evolved in a way to ensure survival by being paranoid, which means that not being paranoid is not wanted evolution wise. Or maybe the key is being the right amount of paranoid...if one is not paranoid at all and is totally naive, one will get steam-rolled in high school. But one is too paranoid, they'll get locked up in a small, padded white room. (stabilizing selection Very Happy

) Hopefully this will change in the future, as people as a whole start realizing that being paranoid all the time is really tiring and not good for one's mental health. cyclops

Luoh Mon May 25, 2009 10:58 pm

Well to answer your question, i want to first ask a question. Does the ego mind have to have social conditions to want to amplify pessimistic feelings?
Ok on to answering your question. Anyways, i have to agree with andy that the first and foremost reason the ego mind was created was for survival. But once people lose the...need to survive in that way, then how does the ego mind survive? By making people believe that they are sad, that they are pessimistic, so people will use their ego minds to think of ways to be "happy".

Andy, does the ego mind have to be turned to bad. I mean, at first, the ego mind could be seen as something good, if we go by the survival way of thinking. It is only after we have no actual use for the ego mind that the ego mind must begin to turn to the bad, in order to keep from dieing out and not being used

Vincent_Lee Mon May 25, 2009 11:06 pm

My mental state is a bit messed up currently so if you find any logical inconsistencies and grammatical errors in this freewrite/post, feel free to keep them. Just kidding. Anyways, now to spew out whatever I have in mind.

First and foremost - the egomind is a tool. A tool is no good without a person to use it. The egomind has no power over us except the power WE give it. The powe WE give it. And like a tool, sometimes the egomind's will become obsolete in certain situations, sometimes it will merely decrease our effectiveness, sometimes it will ruin us, and sometimes it will save our ass. Obviously the egomind's ability to classify and distinguish will save us from mistaking a lion for a nice little kitty and trying to play with it. It also makes sure we don't freak out at the mere sight of cats either.

The egomind helps us function in society as well. As noted before in other topics, in society we tend to wear masks that will help us adapt and get by.

Continuing with my tool comparison, what keeps the egomind going? Information I suppose. From everywhere. But what makes it go from a tool merely used for survival into a supposedly self-conscious, sentient Skynet-like entity hellbent on taking over our mental world? Our dependence on it, the emotions we feed it I suppose? Perhaps I am just playing the Devil's advocate here for the sake of it but I don't think the egomind is as evil as we make it to be. Perhaps we are missing something. I believe it is just a tool. At the worst it is a necessary evil. Once we feed it more emotion it grows more powerful. And then instead of use controlling our egomind, it controls us instead. Hey hey. Matrix anybody?

shawanne Mon May 25, 2009 11:12 pm

It began to develop its own thoughts, like something you would see out of i-robot. Thinking from a computer, who wants to take over the world. Sounds pretty familiar to me.

Kind of reminds one of The Matrix, doesn't it? ._. And yeah, ditto Hannah, it's depressing how something we create gets so out of hand that it would want to take over us just to ensure our survival--but also making us go batshit insane at the same time. o.O

But the theory above is kind of depressing...we evolved in a way to ensure survival by being paranoid, which means that not being paranoid is not wanted evolution wise. Or maybe the key is being the right amount of paranoid...if one is not paranoid at all and is totally naive, one will get steam-rolled in high school. But one is too paranoid, they'll get locked up in a small, padded white room. (stabilizing selection Very Happy ) Hopefully this will change in the future, as people as a whole start realizing that being paranoid all the time is really tiring and not good for one's mental health. cyclops

LMAO! Going back to what Phillip said, the ego mind being paranoid all the time would result in higher survival rates, while people who are walking around unaware of everything might just...die off or get eaten by lions, etc. So how much is 'enough', as Hannah puts it? Hmm. We as people would want to calm the ego mind down to make it usable for our everyday lives, but not so much as to be completely overwhelmed and taken over by it when time comes that it decides to...well...start a tantrum so bad it'll put you in an asylum. Which is D8.

The ego mind combined with societal conditioning, which installs a sense of “insignificance” within us, is what brings about these negative feelings. However, beyond social conditioning, what causes the ego mind to want to amplify such pessimistic emotions in us? What are the rudiments of the ego mind that makes it so overbearing and so obsessive? What is its true nature? What makes it so compatible with the “hazardous” societal conditioning? It is almost stalker-like by its perpetual manifestation in us. In other words, why does it need to be so controlling? What stimulates this response from it?

Hmm. I guess the ego mind, as said in class, is so over-the-top obsessive about everything because it wants to be in control, wants to be top dog; it feels threatened and wants to ensure its survival above everything else, so it developed a paranoia that makes people freak out at every little thing, just to keep the body on the alert [better safe than sorry, as someone else had already pointed out]. So. It's compatible with the societal conditioning because...it's what makes the societal conditioning possible? Like said before, because the ego mind wants to dominate, people on top simply use their power to control whatever's happening down at the bottom ['cause they don't want to be out of power], resulting in societal values and power hierarchies. I think. D;

Edit: ...Stop posting so fast. D;. [/joking]

joannneee Mon May 25, 2009 11:45 pm

So. It's compatible with the societal conditioning because...it's what makes the societal conditioning possible? Like said before, because the ego mind wants to dominate, people on top simply use their power to control whatever's happening down at the bottom ['cause they don't want to be out of power], resulting in societal values and power hierarchies. I think. D;

I'm a little brainfried, so I'll try my best and get out what I have to say. @_@

As mentioned above, the ego-mind is what saves our asses. I think the reason it exists is the reason its trying its damn hardest to save said asses - to live. While we may continue to say that the ego-mind is a inconveniencing existence for our essences', we should also consider the fact that the ego-mind is one of the many reasons we're still here having our typed up discussions.

It's true that maintaining the balance between Essence and the Ego-mind is most important as of now, in our society, if we were to seek happiness but also a good and lucrative life. Yet what I really want to ask is if we all started like animals - we lived our lives technically with our instincts, the only need is to survive - then what caused us, human beings, to develop our ego-mind to this extent? Did we have a moment of insight where our ego-minds realized and acknowledged their own existence? However, as we grew aware of the Essence, as well as our Ego-mind, we began using our ego-mind more, like at the period where after the Salem Witch Trials occurred.

So, in an easy to read sentence: what caused our ego-minds to develop from the fundamental surviving tool to what it is today?

As for its compatibility to society, perhaps it is because now our fundamental survival unit IS society, since we became hunter gatherers and started to live in tribes and small groups. Our ego-mind began to act as a buffer between people, to ensure that we could survive as a group/unit.

**Ajk** Tue May 26, 2009 1:07 am

Interesting discussion so far, you all. Andy has a good basic question. Lee also has an excellent point in asking what makes the ego-mind then become so overbearing, and does it naturally, and maybe we're making it a bigger monster than it is.

Perhaps; it depends on the day. Ha ha, right? NO, it is not necessarily a monster, but it has potential to be. And it's a way that I've classified a certain human attribute, or behavior, with terming it in our discussions as the ego mind, so keep this in mind. In Lee's deepening understanding due to also having psychology class he adds a more complete understanding with his question: "I suppose it's the emotions that we feed it." Now that's getting more to it.

That's the key. So then you all take it from there.

All your posts reflect ongoing thinking about this and growth and I'm psyched for you. Much richness will come from this.

Cheers!
Ms Kay Razz

Vincent_Lee Tue May 26, 2009 6:53 pm

The egomind is a tool that changes with its users and the situation the user is encountered with, and the emotions the user feels from the situation. If we are taking a test, the egomind kicks in. If we are hanging out with close friends, our egomind would most likely not be as active, because of the connection we feel with our close friends. The egomind shifts from situation to situation.

The egomind shifts in situations depending on our emotional level. A calm, coolheaded test-taker's egomind would work very differently compared to that of a hysterical, emotionally-charged test-taker's.

Now another idea I'd like to raise is that the egomind can be developed, it can be changed within a certain situation. By becoming aware of its patterns and habits in a certain situation, we can change them. We can change the tactics the egomind uses into something helpful, instead of harmful. The constantly hysterical test-taker can learn to prevent her emotions from going overboard if she can predict where the stress will come from and act accordingly to prevent or avoid it. Instead of bursting into fits during tests, she can adopt a more calm response. That response is still the egomind, but now it is beneficial. It is no longer a rabid beast. It becomes our workhorse if we can tame it.

Luoh Tue May 26, 2009 7:03 pm

Lee, i agree with what you say. The ego mind is "At the worst it is a necessary evil", but couldn't we, i'm going to be going away from what we said all this year to see what happens, but couldn't we look as the ego mind as not evil?

In class, we talked, today actually, about how we have tended to make the ego something bad, like you say, a necessary evil. However, can't we look at it as a necessary evil at certain times, and then a necessary good thing (can't think of a word for that right now Very Happy

) other times? I mean, the ego mind DOES help us, reach goals, and do somethings that we believe could not be achieved, such as some of the goals that we try to reach, through using the ego mind.

Ok, so the question is what makes the ego mind obsessive and bad right? Well, i think that what makes it begin to become obsessive is when we either take time to depend on it, or unconciously begin to use the ego mind for everything, not even stopping to think if maybe we actually need it for a event. I believe that when we decide not to use our being, and allow our ego mind to become loud enough to drown out our being, then it has become obsessive. Before this, the ego mind is something that helps us as humans. After it grows, then it becomes obsessive and bad.

Angela Tue May 26, 2009 7:17 pm

Once we feed it more emotion it grows more powerful. And then instead of use controlling our egomind, it controls us instead.

Thanks for clearing up on the concept regarding the ego mind, Lee. The ego mind, when we think about it, IS a tool that we can use and take control of. When we say that the ego mind is going into overdrive, it simply because we have lost control of it and it is therefore dominating and going wild! I suddenly had a thought connecting the egomind with the topic we discussed last quarter about abuse of power. The ego mind IS beneficial and DOES serve its purposes. But, is it that once it feels that it holds great importance, it will act like a person on the top of a hiearchy chain and use its power in the wrong ways and eventually lead to overdrive? We are not controlled by the ego minds, but in some occasions, we tend to blaim the ego mind when we are actually in control and it does accordingly to what we order. The ego mind will not spontaneously go into overdrive. It only does so when we do not control it. Therefore, the ego mind should not be thought of some forever-ranting machine whose existence is to create unecessary thoughts that lead to fear and doubt. As we talked about in class today and just as Ms. Kay explained, the ego mind holds it purposes and therefore exists for an important reason.

The ego mind takes part in societal conditioning not only in negative ways. Anyone have some specific every day life examples?

Sometimes we may depend too much on the ego mind. It is like depending too much on a tool to an extent to when that tool misfunctions and loses its orignal purpose, one may feel like the world has gone crazy. Perhaps a reason why many people may notice the negative sides of the ego mind more easily than the positive sides of the ego mind is because they have had experiences with the ego mind where it brought to them negative feelings. Just like the ‘abuse of power’ example that I mentioned before, it is quite easy to use ones power in the wrong way once one has felt the feeling of being in power. Simply a shift in perspective will allow one to realize that the ego mind does not “constantly talk” for no reason.

Andy.S Tue May 26, 2009 7:39 pm

HAHAHA! Nice Lee. I like how you thought of the Matrix.
To clarify even more, the egomind is just another body "gear" or a tool as you say it. As long we know how to manage our own functions to our benefits, then the egomind is not a problem at all. It is just like "botting" in a computer game. One that "bots" generally means a person who runs a program that automatically plays the game for them instead of having the person do it themselves. This saves time for the guy AND the level-ups he wants from the game (assuming it is a MMORPG or something). But as we continue to rely on this "bot", we get into a pattern where we don't think and just dumbly follow. This is probably where the egomind comes in and takes control of our lives. It creates these patterns to run our system while our main conscious button is off. But is the egomind dominance a result of the "aggressive egomind" itself? NO! We ourselves are the ones who willingly gave up our power seat position to the egomind so it can develop patterns that easily cope up with daily life. It is like a king giving up his power to the lords and dukes that have a grand plan, a supposedly win-win idea (which is not). We are responsible for this and the funny part is that it is natural for us, which basically makes it half our fault. Of course, this is overly simplified since the egomind is not just a pattern but a system. This is why the egomind is so hard to get rid of; because its hard to destroy a system you have been living with so suddenly. It branches to almost every aspect our lives, and when threatened, the ego mind of course gets into a defensive mechanism to protect its "way of life".
So to address to the main question, the egomind is just some tool that we have to live in harmony with. We tend to let it go into it's own schemes, but as long we are constantly reminding it who exactly is in power...I am sure the egomind cannot become such disaster

Andy.S Tue May 26, 2009 7:44 pm

The egomind shifts in situations depending on our emotional level. A calm, coolheaded test-taker's egomind would work very differently compared to that of a hysterical, emotionally-charged test-taker's.

I haven't really thought about that before...but I suppose that would make sense since the egomind gets into everything and thus creating "sub" personalities.
(Sub personalities as in small personalities developed by the ego mind, either a defense mechanism or just a mark from previous experience. Afterwards it can develop into a pattern)

So...do you think emotions are the ones that alter the egomind and its "products"?

Vicky Tue May 26, 2009 8:44 pm

Wow! Awesome discussion so far, you guys!

Okay, so basically these are the main points that we have established so far:

First, the ego mind is a tool that was installed into us since our arrival in order to help us escape danger. It acts like our instinct. When we are faced with danger, the ego mind has to be “controlling” and “obsessive” in order to for us to escape. In this context, the ego mind can hardly to be considered a control freak. More appropriately, it should be considered a tool that is quite adamant about its job – it is ferocious. It is very attentive to its occupation, which is to help the individual survive. Yet, like a lot of leaders today, the ego mind tends to go into “power-overdrive” when too my dependence is placed upon it. Even though it might start out as a youth filled with aspirations, when it begins to gain more power, it slowly turns into a tyrant and ends up spending more time finding ways to secure its power rather than helping the individual survive.

However, we cannot put all the blame on the ego mind. It is we who started to rely on the ego mind so much in the first place. After experiencing the privileges that the ego mind can bring out – survival –, we end up depending on it more and more. As Lee mentioned, we can control the ego mind by “becoming aware of its patterns and habits in a certain situation, we can change them.” Stop giving the ego mind all the power! In a sense, we seem to be under a dictatorship, with the ego mind being the dominant force. Thus, we must find a way to turn our minds into a democracy, where we can take control of the feelings that we want manifested.

So, now here are the questions that I would like you guys to consider:

]I am my own stalker, and my fear is maintained by my unwillingness to see that I am.

This is a question raised by a person from another forum. What do you guys think? This seems similar to the point that Lee and Andy raised.

Also, As Lee as mentioned, our emotions are what feeds the ego mind – what makes it so dominant. In that case, what creates our emotions? If our ego minds are merely tools that can go into overdrive once we put too much reliance on them, then what exactly generates our emotions? Does the ego mind not have any emotions then?

Finally, why is it that the ego mind, as a tool, is comparatively much louder than the being is? Is it because after using it for so long, it becomes more dominant, which causes it to naturally become louder? Or was it created with a “loud” voice?

ivy Tue May 26, 2009 8:54 pm

Vicky wrote:Finally, why is it that the ego mind, as a tool, is comparatively much louder than the being is? Is it because after using it for so long, it becomes more dominant, which causes it to naturally become louder? Or was it created with a “loud” voice?

hiii! i'm intruding this conversation for the moment Very Happy

What i think that makes the ego mind so loud and dominant is because it is closer to human nature. if it is the essence, the emotions of jealousy and hatred should be rarely visible; however, that is not human nature. the ego mind has the ability to love/hate anyone it wants, so it is "following its heart." i think most people are less than willing to listen to the comments that are harder to achieves, such as being the bigger person.
personally, i realize that i have to be the bigger person, because the other guy is such a jerk, and i know that i am better than him, but somehow, i just can't do it. and i am very uninterested in being the bigger person. i suppose the ego mind is loud because it tolerates our ways of screwing around and being a coward, while our essence will inevitably force us to take a step and confront the inner demon. no one likes to confront the inner demon Crying or Very sad

shawanne Tue May 26, 2009 9:08 pm

I am my own stalker, and my fear is maintained by my unwillingness to see that I am.

When Ms. Kay asked Bradley what was keeping him from 'bowing down' to the right answer, he said 'my ego mind'. I guess this kind of reflects what this quote states, that once an idea sets in motion [your personality?] the ego mind would manifest it into something that blocks your way to the 'right way'. By being unwilling to see what one really is, or the fact that one is wrong, one will block the way to the light simply because one does not wish to see it. This does not mean that the ego mind is 'OMG BAD!!11!' all the time; in fact, if you're really stubborn about something [as in, your dreams, goals, etc.] and want to get to that point, you will get there; if you acknowledge your faults and your strengths, it will only add to the positive--kind of like The Secret, what your attitude is will bring about more of that same energy.

...I have no idea what I'm talking about anymore O.o

Hannah Park Tue May 26, 2009 10:01 pm

Vicky wrote:
Also, As Lee as mentioned, our emotions are what feeds the ego mind – what makes it so dominant. In that case, what creates our emotions? If our ego minds are merely tools that can go into overdrive once we put too much reliance on them, then what exactly generates our emotions? Does the ego mind not have any emotions then?

Finally, why is it that the ego mind, as a tool, is comparatively much louder than the being is? Is it because after using it for so long, it becomes more dominant, which causes it to naturally become louder? Or was it created with a “loud” voice?

hmm..I think that the basic essence of emotions is from the being, and it is the ego mind that interprets the emotion into what it wants it to be. For example, looking at a puppy generally gives you a certain good feeling such as happiness, joy or silliness but your ego mind may remind you that because the puppy bit you last week, it hates you and is definitely going to bite you again, making you feel fear. Therefore, one might think the puppy is cute, but also dangerous. Does this mean that without the ego mind, everything will look happy and not dangerous? Or will there be not emotions at all, because the ego mind will not be able to convert a given informatio into an emotion Question

At the beginning, the ego mind probably coexisted with the being, maybe even quiter than the being; looking at animals, instincts seem to override anything else. However, as humans began to depend on their brains more than their muscles, something changed. Being physically stronger or better adapted became not as important as competitiveness, cunning and the drive to do more,to get more, all the things needed to climb up the social heiarchy. Therefore, the ego mind became appreciated because it helped one become competitive and scheming and wanting more. It's like telling a spoiled child that yes, he/she is an unique gem that shines through the dullness of other normal children. The child will probably become more self-obssessed, demanding and sure of its absolute authority. The ego mind became what it is because of the constant reassurance through its usage that it is key to achieving (material) happiness.

Vincent_Lee Tue May 26, 2009 10:23 pm

I'd post my own personal response but Hannah's post pretty much sums up my beliefs. Somewhat.

Hannah Park wrote:hmm..I think that the basic essence of emotions is from the being, and it is the ego mind that interprets the emotion into what it wants it to be. For example, looking at a puppy generally gives you a certain good feeling such as happiness, joy or silliness but your ego mind may remind you that because the puppy bit you last week, it hates you and is definitely going to bite you again, making you feel fear. Therefore, one might think the puppy is cute, but also dangerous. Does this mean that without the ego mind, everything will look happy and not dangerous? Or will there be not emotions at all, because the ego mind will not be able to convert a given informatio into an emotion

In your example, I think the egomind doesn't interpret a specific emotion as much as it creates a new emotion out of a new association. The puppy's cute appearance is associated with feelings of happiness, joy, silliness but the puppy biting you is associated with fear. And then once those associations are made, we have some weird conflicting emotions. Perhaps it's similar to something like love, where there are both feelings of fear and joy? I would believe so.

I doubt emotions will not exist at all, it's just that without language, labels, and other egomind-related stuff, we can't quite express our emotions. Emotions will always be there as long as beinge xists.

joannneee Tue May 26, 2009 10:43 pm

My mind is about to go blah again so sorry if somethings remain a little ambiguous. @_@

Hannah Park wrote:
hmm..I think that the basic essence of emotions is from the being, and it is the ego mind that interprets the emotion into what it wants it to be. For example, looking at a puppy generally gives you a certain good feeling such as happiness, joy or silliness but your ego mind may remind you that because the puppy bit you last week, it hates you and is definitely going to bite you again, making you feel fear. Therefore, one might think the puppy is cute, but also dangerous. Does this mean that without the ego mind, everything will look happy and not dangerous? Or will there be not emotions at all, because the ego mind will not be able to convert a given information into an emotion

Emptiness is actually one way of interpreting feeling everything, right? You're just at peace with everything around you - you accept everything, and you feel everything. In turn it feels like nothing is happening.

I don't exactly know how to describe what I think about this question; without the ego-mind, I am actually quite assured that we would be unable to survive in the wild, given that it is also the ruler of instincts of survival. However, it is only in our modern era when we have become more aware of the ego-mind's "intruding" presence - when we're at peace, and survival is now not totally based on our instincts. In the past two hundred years, more people have become self aware (correct me if I'm mistaken) and this awareness could probably not have been achieved if we were constantly fighting for our survival rather than being in a society where there is harmony.

At the beginning, the ego mind probably coexisted with the being, maybe even quiter than the being; looking at animals, instincts seem to override anything else. However, as humans began to depend on their brains more than their muscles, something changed. Being physically stronger or better adapted became not as important as competitiveness, cunning and the drive to do more,to get more, all the things needed to climb up the social heiarchy. Therefore, the ego mind became appreciated because it helped one become competitive and scheming and wanting more. It's like telling a spoiled child that yes, he/she is an unique gem that shines through the dullness of other normal children. The child will probably become more self-obssessed, demanding and sure of its absolute authority. The ego mind became what it is because of the constant reassurance through its usage that it is key to achieving (material) happiness.

Hm. I feel a little different: I actually don't think the ego-mind is vying for power. In a way, it's just trying to let it's "host" feel its happiness - maybe I'm overtly romanticizing the ego-mind's actions, but in a way it's just doing all it can to make sure that we're alive, and that we derive satisfaction from being alive.

The reason the ego-mind makes the emotions that it does is perhaps the initial reaction to being threatened. It feels fear because a situation has arose where the "host" may be physically threatened. It feels anger because of the host's surroundings sometimes demand anger in order to protect his or her "turf". It can be described in an initial reaction of possessiveness: like how lions draw their territory and dogs "do their business" to mark their boundaries. Our reactions can be a mere survival way of telling other people to "back off" from what is ours.

Now another idea I'd like to raise is that the egomind can be developed, it can be changed within a certain situation. By becoming aware of its patterns and habits in a certain situation, we can change them. We can change the tactics the egomind uses into something helpful, instead of harmful. The constantly hysterical test-taker can learn to prevent her emotions from going overboard if she can predict where the stress will come from and act accordingly to prevent or avoid it. Instead of bursting into fits during tests, she can adopt a more calm response. That response is still the egomind, but now it is beneficial. It is no longer a rabid beast. It becomes our workhorse if we can tame it.

<-- this struck me as very, very interesting. Very Happy

How are we going to learn to control the ego-mind? Is our Essence capable of performing the job?

If we lived in Utopia, where everyone was at peace, happy, fulfilled, and not angry at their life could we completely diminish the ego-mind? Is that what the ego-mind is? A buffer against all the dangers of survival?

I agree that the ego-mind can definitely evolve - we could tame it if we tried our best to do so. But what exactly should we do?

But as we continue to rely on this "bot", we get into a pattern where we don't think and just dumbly follow. This is probably where the egomind comes in and takes control of our lives. It creates these patterns to run our system while our main conscious button is off. But is the egomind dominance a result of the "aggressive egomind" itself? NO! We ourselves are the ones who willingly gave up our power seat position to the egomind so it can develop patterns that easily cope up with daily life.

LOL to the bot metaphor! Is this another way to say that we're lazy butts? The ego-mind itself isn't aggressive; it just seems to be because we're the ones not doing anything to save our own butts and live our own lives so that the ego-mind has to go into overdrive in order to maintain our normal lifestyle. If we functioned in Essence, we wouldn't be able to protect ourselves, so the ego-mind develops a set pattern because he has a heck of a lot of work to do.

In one way to put it, I'd say the ego-mind would be an overworked secretary. Or maybe it's just overworked.

Angela Tue May 26, 2009 11:37 pm

After replying to your previous question, I shall now respond do your new question.

I am my own stalker, and my fear is maintained by my unwillingness to see that I am.

This idea is pretty intersting. Fear is what results from us giving into our ego minds and not controlling it as we should – since it’s a tool that we hold power over. Fear will continue to last until we raise awarness of our Being and that we are not our ego minds. We are not our thoughts. The transition that takes place in order for us to step out of our ego mind may be hard. Sometimes we are so overwhelemed by our ego mind and the thoughts that it creates that we are not able to regain the confidence in ourselves and to step out confidently from the suppression of the ego mind. A change in perspective, a willingness to see that one is the Being, a true Being that possesses unlimited potential to grow and to create, will allow one to step out of fear and to develop control over ones life.

Fionaaa :) Wed May 27, 2009 12:27 am

hey angela :]
as with hannah's example with the puppy, we will still need fear to protect ourselves, or else the puppy just might bite us to death. I'm sure many people have mentioned the ego-mind as a form of protection for our physical self, so if we "step out of fear" as you suggest we do, are we completely wiping out the fear? (which you say will eradicate our need for the ego-mind)....which brings me to this question -

why does fearing make us need the ego-mind?

Jason Jr. Wed May 27, 2009 12:36 am

Hello

I was walking outside a couple minutes ago where i saw 2 dogs fighting. i don't know the reason and i don't really care. but as i watched these two dogs in my neighborhood tear each other apart, it reminded me of the Ego mind.

You can think the ego mind as an animal instinct, it categorizes to protect itself, it always wants more power or more of anything. However, it is also our so called life force or will to live.

the Higher Being on the other hand is what the society wants from all of the people, It is the perfect citizen. the higher being will tell you to follow the iron clad rules of society and fit in with the society.

People think that the Ego mind may be hazardous and bad, but isn't that just because they want to live and want freedom. Is wanting freedom and life a sin great enough to be hunted by society and forced on to their set of rules?

Hope this was not too boring

See Ya

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