Unveiling the "Stalker's" Rudiments

Hey guys!

Ange: Is it completely true that the ego mind “creates” the fear? In our previous discussion, we said that the ego mind merely responds to the emotion that our “self” is feeling. Perhaps the fear is actually created by ourselves? It is due to this fear that people end up consulting/resorting to the sanctuary of their ego minds? And because the ego mind is our “instinct,” it will react the way it’s been reacting for millions of years? What are your thoughts on this?

Fee: Hmm…that’s a very good question, fee! So expanding on your question, what exactly is it in an individual that causes the person to develop fear? Why is this self so “weak” that it usually ends up running to the ego mind for help?

Jason: Does the ego mind necessarily bring freedom to a person? According to our discussion above, the ego mind evolved from a self-defense mechanism that secured the chances of survival. One of its intrinsic characteristics is that it is skeptical and induces fear – this allows it to “tell” the individual to RUNNNN. But what if the individual starts to depend too much on the ego mind? Does the person start to feel even more fear and insecurity? Is that truly liberating?

Is it completely true that the ego mind “creates” the fear? In our previous discussion, we said that the ego mind merely responds to the emotion that our “self” is feeling. Perhaps the fear is actually created by ourselves? It is due to this fear that people end up consulting/resorting to the sanctuary of their ego minds? And because the ego mind is our “instinct,” it will react the way it’s been reacting for millions of years? What are your thoughts on this?

wow...this is a huge question =P In my previous post, i mentioned that fear is what results from us giving into our ego minds and not controlling it as we should – since it’s a tool that we hold power over. Fear will continue to last until we raise awareness of our Being and that we are not our ego minds. In this situation, our ego minds are dominating our Beings - which is what you mentioned as our "self" feeling. I think its a lack of awareness of the presence of our Being that may be a component of the fear that is created. Without awareness that a Being exists within each and every one of us and that it possesses unlimited potential, once the ego mind starts shooting and going into overdrive, one may not be able to handle it and this is where all the negative thoughts/feelings arise – which lead to fear and doubt for oneself.

I’ll think about this question a little more and I will give you a reply as soon as I synthesize my thoughts and combine it into a post! =)

I believe that the egomind can amplify, distort, weaken, and change emotions in general. Saying that the egomind only serves that role though wouldn't be completely accurate though. Where would our inherited fears, such as the fear of insects, snakes, or heights come from? They're still developed from the egomind, through the association of pain and generally bad things, with the above mentioned things. So I guess the question still comes down to where the fear comes from? We know the egomind can amplify fear, it can associate fear with things, but where does the fear itself come from? The Being?

I'm not too sure of that myself.

Hey guys!

The forum seems awfully quiet because of the four day weekend! I hope everyone’s enjoying it!

BUT, the discussion must continue.

So I guess the question still comes down to where the fear comes from? We know the egomind can amplify fear, it can associate fear with things, but where does the fear itself come from? The Being?

This is a question that still seems to puzzle. However, yesterday, on another forum that I went to, someone posted an idea that I think will help guide this inquiry. Please consider the following quote:

For example, if we can sense, feel, and know cold, we will understand cold. But how many even know the difference between feeling and sensing cold much less be able to experience the sensation of cold with the whole of ourselves in this way. The ego then compensates for the lack of conscious awareness with imagination that leads to a perverted ego from the need to justify imagination. The ego now just expresses the imaginary results of disunity.

Any thoughts on the ego mind’s imagination and the formation of fear?

To Ange: You said that “Fear will continue to last until we raise awareness of our Being and that we are not our ego minds.” Are you suggesting that when we start to realize our over-reliance on the ego mind, we can have more control over its dominance, and consequently, lessen the feelings of fear? Why do you think it is the lack of recognition of the Being that causes us to fear? Could you maybe elaborate on that point? Wouldn’t a person fear the attack of a lion, nonetheless, regardless of their awareness of their Being? But anyway, I’m excited to hear your thoughts on this!

Where does fear come from? Especially irrational fears that doesn't seem to come from any previous experience? For example, I feared swimming in water as a kid, but it's not like I almost drowned once in a swimming pool and therefore hate water. I just didn't like it, and according to my mom I refused to go in the swimming pool without my swim tube (游泳圈..I was four, ok?) until I saw this kid who was 6 months younger than me and still using diapers just diving into the pool without anything. Then I realized that swimming in the pool without my tube won't kill me.(not likely, anyway) But the funny thing is, how did I know that it could kill me? Does some part of the brain just register water as dangerous until otherwise proven? It's like this thing I read ( or watched on TV) about how kids fear the dark, and how they think something's out to get them in the dark. The thing I read (or saw) suggested it's because long ago humans had a good reason to fear the dark because of nocturnal predators lurking in corners, and somehow that fear got encoded in our genes and became hereditary. So irrational fear is there implanted in us from the beginning?

I just found an article on this: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13607-genes-trigger-phobias-in-kids-and-teens.html

Hey Vicky!

I think its a lack of awareness of the presence of our Being that may be a component of the fear that is created.

I think I agree with Angela on this. I think that if we acknowledged the interconnectivity of everything, then we would not fear death at all. It's just like when little kids get vaccinated and how they are scared of the needle because they automatically think that it is going to hurt. When we are one with essence in the nonlocal domain, we begin to understand that there are no such things as time or physical barriers, that anything is really possible. Thus, we stop fearing pain or death. Like what we said in class about near-death experiences and how it changes a person, maybe since connecting with the Universal Being helps human requires human beings to have transcend beyond the physical, in doing so, we understand that death, like everything else, is just another part of life and that it is not really the end of our existence.

Yet, because the ego-mind is so scared of death and being shut down, when we identify ourselves as the ego-mind--thinking that there are actual limitations to the human potential and that death will end our lives-- we begin to fear death and thus, fear anything that we think might make us die, hence Hannah's swimming example. Therefore, as Hannah suggested, maybe irrational fear is implanted in us, in our ego-mind that is. I mean since as long as people have had thoughts, the ego-mind has existed, maybe our ego-mind has been stored with thousands of years of the need to survive and the fear of being killed by giant animals or other tribes from a more savage time that all those fears have been passed down to us in our genes through natural selection. Natural selection, which is all about preserving and passing down the genes that enable the species to best adapt to the environment and ultimately survive, may have passed down to us another gene--the gene of paranoia. The paranoia that the ego-mind goes into when we begin to fear death and anything associated with it because in the Stone Ages or before civilization (or even now with civilization), human beings and all organisms in general are often faced with competition and a possibility of getting eliminated. Thus, in the face of such competition, we all get a little obsessively competitive, constantly fearing our fall.

Therefore, if we were to stop obsessing over such pointless competition and started to treat death as something of nature, then we would not longer fear. By recognizing the interconnectivity of everything through essence, who will ever fear again? Who needs to fear when he or she is equipped with infintie potential?

Hey guys!

Great discussion so far, really! We seem to have reached the consensus that fear was implanted in us since the very beginning of our existence – since the inception of the ego mind’s presence.

I think that if we acknowledged the interconnectivity of everything, then we would not fear death at all.

Is this completely true though? Even if we do acknowledge the interconnectivity of everything, our ego minds will still be present. Therefore, its instinct to react in fear and paranoia is still there. Just like what Phil said that the very beginning of the discussion, when we come in contact with a lion, of course we will react in fear. It is what stimulates the adrenaline rush, which allows us to run away faster and be more alert! So in a sense, we will always fear death, but we can lessen these feelings by realizing the interconnectivity between all things. So, what do you guys think?

Here is a new question that I want you guys to think about: It seems like people react to fear in similar ways. Therefore, are all of our ego minds the same? Or are there certain qualities in everyone’s ego mind that makes it unique from others?

To Vicky's question, our ego minds are all similar to a degree, but are also different to each others. I mean, we do react to fear in similar ways, but within these "similar" reactions, people also have their unique reactions. People reacting to a lion would obviously first run away, but after they run away, why do some people stop, and some people keep on running? I think this could be like what makes a person's ego mind unique to other ego minds.

The difference could be in how a person reacts TO the fear. People probably all react the same when they first feel fear, but i think what makes a person's ego mind unique is how they react after the initial reaction. People usual all react different, with some going into shock, some people trying to supress the fear, some fighting back, etc.

Vicky wrote:Here is a new question that I want you guys to think about: It seems like people react to fear in similar ways. Therefore, are all of our ego minds the same? Or are there certain qualities in everyone’s ego mind that makes it unique from others

I believe that our underlying physiological and emotional responses to fear-inducing stimulus are the same. We feel scared, threatened, our heart starts pounding, etc. It's not so much the reaction of fear, it's how people handle their fear.

I agree that people with different egominds respond to fear differently. Despite these outward differences though, the egomind's underlying function remains the same. Help the person survive. Now let's say we have a situation in which were two armed thugs are robbing a convenience store. A cop arrives on the scene and a firefight breaks out. Now, every person in that situation - the store clerk, the armed thugs, the police - is going to feel fear. It keeps them alive. But everyone handles it differently. The store clerk, who never faced any of these situations in his entire life would probably cower behind the cash registers. The thugs, accustomed to violent confrontations, would open fire on the police to kill him and keep from getting caught. The cop, with training, would react similarly to the thugs and return fire, albeit more professionally. The thugs' egominds would be going on raw experience while the cop's egomind would be relying on previous encounters and training.

I think it might have been stated before, maybe not, but the egomind is changed by our accumulated experiences. It develops skills that help it overcome any adversity its environment offers. Egomind is molded by nurture, our environment, essentially.

I think it might have been stated before, maybe not, but the egomind is changed by our accumulated experiences. It develops skills that help it overcome any adversity its environment offers. Egomind is molded by nurture, our environment, essentially.

That sounds about right~but I've been thinking [and sorry if this has already been asked before, but it's twelve in the morning now and I'm brainfried so bear with me] about what the ego-mind is like at its...beginning. As in, during conception of a person, what is the ego mind like then? Is it just like a blank sheet of paper 'cause the person has no experience in anything yet, or...? Sorry if it sounds like a stupid question n.n

Hi guys!

It develops skills that help it overcome any adversity its environment offers.

Yes, just like what Luoh and Lee said, everyone’s ego mind reacts to fear, but they react differently. Yet, do you think that the ego mind can be trained to not feel fear anymore? Can it become stoic – immune to any kind of fear? For instance, if a person were in constant danger of dying, would their ego mind eventually get used to it and not emit fear?

As in, during conception of a person, what is the ego mind like then? Is it just like a blank sheet of paper 'cause the person has no experience in anything yet, or...?

Hmm, no, this is a really good question, Shawanne! Does the ego mind necessarily react the same way the way it has before? Does it always seem to connect the current situation to the past? Or is it capable of using the beginner’s mind? After all, we ultimately have the control over our ego mind. If we choose not to react to things immediately, do you think that after a while, the ego mind can be trained to do so?

=O so many new posts!!

This is my reponse to a question Vicky posted a few days before =P

To Ange: You said that “Fear will continue to last until we raise awareness of our Being and that we are not our ego minds.” Are you suggesting that when we start to realize our over-reliance on the ego mind, we can have more control over its dominance, and consequently, lessen the feelings of fear? Why do you think it is the lack of recognition of the Being that causes us to fear? Could you maybe elaborate on that point? Wouldn’t a person fear the attack of a lion, nonetheless, regardless of their awareness of their Being? But anyway, I’m excited to hear your thoughts on this!

Just like Fermin mentioned, once we acknowledge the interconnectivity of everything, then we would not have to fear things because we would be aware of the unlimited potential and possibilities that our Beings could create and take action. When our Beings dominate, it will be able to outshine the ego mind and therefore it will “block” out the rambling thoughts that the ego mind creates. For example, sometimes in life when everything seems to be going against you and your ego mind shoots out thoughts that lead you to feeling paranoid, you will feel overwhlemed and hopeless. But, if we were to allow our Beings to interconnect with the Universal Being and to allow unlimited potential to flow in, instead of allowing “ego thoughts” to circulate within us, we would be able to better deal with life. The fear that I mentioned was referring more to the fear that is created from within and not from external objects, such as the lion or some monster. It is the fear that is, perhaps the “scariest” of all? This kind of fear is the kind that causes us to lose control of our Beings and to allow the ego mind to go into chaos. It is internal fear that one cannot get rid of through external forces because it exists within and from oneself.
Haha..so when I typed that post, I was focusing on another kind of fear.

Fee said:
I'm sure many people have mentioned the ego-mind as a form of protection for our physical self, so if we "step out of fear" as you suggest we do, are we completely wiping out the fear? (which you say will eradicate our need for the ego-mind)....

By stepping out of the ego mind, we are able to raise awarness of the existence of our quiet Beings and the interconnectivity and interrelation that is has with the Universal Being – with all. Perhaps it is a way to deal with the fear, because as Fermin said, once we open up the interconnectivity of our Being, we will no longer fear. I think its more a way of dealing with our internal fear – what I mean by that is fear that is not form external objects, but rather from within. We will be able to develop a better grasp of the control that we have of our Beings, because afterall, as we talked about perviously, the ego mind is just a tool. Hope that kind of helps =P

I dont think its the WANT of the ego mind to casue pessemistic views and negative emotions. The ego mind analyzes and it is useful on a day to day basis where we assess information to create CONVENIENCE. But none of this correlates with what the world and universal essence really works by and so while the ego mind analyzes teh world just.. goes. This complete incompatibility gives the ego mind its narrow area of scope and because the ego mind exists only in such a shallow domain, those who have been identified with their ego mind can only see the world from the view of the ego mind. This confusion and lack of openeing without the chance to broad perspective will cause these negative emotions and pessemistic views.
As for your second question.. I think that our ego minds are different. Eveyrbody is faced with differnt sides to the spontaneity of the world thereby creating different conditions for us all. Our ego mind shapes itself around the conditions given to us.

Vicky wrote:Yet, do you think that the ego mind can be trained to not feel fear anymore? Can it become stoic – immune to any kind of fear? For instance, if a person were in constant danger of dying, would their ego mind eventually get used to it and not emit fear?

Well, can't people get used to about anything after a while? With habituation, humans and animals stop responding to a stimulus after repeated exposure; they just learn to ignore it. The same concept can probabily applied to fear, espeically irrational fears that can be easily proven wrong... like after repeated exposure to fruit flies, we realize that fruit flies won't harm us...it just happens to be not as cute as hamsters (or hedgehogs) I guess habituation is essential to survival of individuals in the sense that it'll lessen the chance of almost getting a heart attack because of a stimulus that is commonly seen.

So, assuming habituation can be applied in this case, if someone who is in constant danger of dying, or had many near death experiences, and they are still not dead, their memory will tell them when facing a new death threat about all those instances that seemed like one was dying but in fact survived. This could help them ignore the fear that they might die. But that is assuming that the person is optimistic. A pessimistic person might go: this could be it, I was lucky so far but I can't be lucky all the time...prepare for the worse!

Hey guys!

I think you guys have done an excellent job discussing the ego mind this week! I hope that after this week’s discussion, we can stop viewing the ego mind in black and white – that despite its negative effects, there are still some positive aspects of the ego mind that aids us in survival.

So, I have one last statement for you guys to think about:

The ego is our opinion of ourselves which from an acquired imbalance in our being is based upon imagination.

What do you think? So is the ego mind truly as heinous as we make it to be? Or are we, ourselves, the source of insecurity – which the ego mind expands on. Ultimately, whose fault is it for the fear and paranoia we feel? The ego mind?

What do you think? So is the ego mind truly as heinous as we make it to be? Or are we, ourselves, the source of insecurity – which the ego mind expands on. Ultimately, whose fault is it for the fear and paranoia we feel? The ego mind?

Vicky!

At first, when I thought of the ego-mind, I thought that it was the source of our paranoia and fears, that by quieting it down, we will not have doubts anymore (that we'll realize our infinite potential). But then I thought about how we can step back from our mind and observe it, that we're not realy the mind. Yet, even though we may dis-indentify ourselves from the ego-mind, we still think about things with our mind, the one that we have started to call the 'pure mind' in my thread about telepathy. This pure mind thinks and classifies without going into overdrive, and without the fears of the ego-mind but with the correct mindset of accepting the new, isn't this pure mind our individual being?

And when the being thinks about things--things that we have to do like homework and chores--we often think about the insufficient amount of time we've for completing these tasks and thus, the ego-mind takes over and begins to panic. So maybe the ego-mind isn't the source of all fears...maybe it is simply a catalyst, forcing into action what is already present--the possibility of panic.

Question: When we've stepped back and realized that we're not our ego-minds, does that mean that we've connected with the Universal Being then? Or does it just mean that we're more in tuned with our own being but with the possibility that we haven't yet realized the interconnectivity of things and the infinite potential? If it is the latter, then without acknowledging the interconnectivity of everything and the infinite potential that results from such a relationship, we will still worry--maybe not start hyperventilating or fear the worse, but we can still get frustrated, which is enough for the ego-mind to take over once again.

Vicky wrote:Hey guys!

What do you think? So is the ego mind truly as heinous as we make it to be? Or are we, ourselves, the source of insecurity – which the ego mind expands on. Ultimately, whose fault is it for the fear and paranoia we feel? The ego mind?[/color]

Yes, the four day weekend has also deprived my brain of its most basic functions such as writing a valid response, so I'll try my best:

The Ego-mind is, as I think we've come to, a survival based tool. It's a security net that rings at the sight of threats and reacts when we're under attack (theoretically.) Usually it's just there to warn you about an appointment you're about to miss or to stop yourself from making a "fool out of yourself," from its point of view. Fear may be an emotion it generates from viewing potentially dangerously things, and this can also lead into whether fear is spontaneous, which is ultimately our question as of now.

I suppose fear can never be exemplified from our lives, unless we are free of threat - it can also mean that the only way for us to be free of the ego-mind if for us to be completely peaceful with ourselves; and that would mean when we don't feel the need to protect ourselves.

So my answer to your question, Vick, would be that Fear is an initial part of us. When we think about it, it is impossible for one emotion to be from the being and another to be purely from the ego-mind, because in the end the supreme being makes up all of us as the most basic unit. Our beings may be the basis of all positive emotions, but would we be capable of feeling happiness without knowing pain and sorrow?

There is probably no difference between pain or happiness - it's just that our minds work too slowly that everything seems like a separate moment when in reality everything is merely a continuous cycle of things. Our ego-mind may make it seem like we have emotions separate from each other but there's only really one emotion, and that is emotion itself.

Is the ego-mind at fault? I wouldn't say so, but it does slow us down when it tries to process information, and it gives us many false impressions of disconnectivity. Hopefully this turned out okay. @_@

Heyy =)

Joanne’s post suddenly made me think of something.

So my answer to your question, Vick, would be that Fear is an initial part of us. When we think about it, it is impossible for one emotion to be from the being and another to be purely from the ego-mind, because in the end the supreme being makes up all of us as the most basic unit. Our beings may be the basis of all positive emotions, but would we be capable of feeling happiness without knowing pain and sorrow?

As we have talked about before, we live with our ego minds and Being co-existing with each other. Therefore, emotion should be a mix and result from the chemistry of the coexistence of both.

Vicky said
What do you think? So is the ego mind truly as heinous as we make it to be? Or are we, ourselves, the source of insecurity – which the ego mind expands on. Ultimately, whose fault is it for the fear and paranoia we feel? The ego mind?

As we have concluded through numerous long posts and the sythesis that everyone made, the ego mind is not completely evil and heinous. We may think that way because we are simply taking the easy route out of things and threrefore blaiming everything on the ego mind, which DOES hold its purpose and significance. I think it is partly ourselves that creates the source of insecuity. The ego mind is a tool that we have the power to control. Therefore, the ego mind is not forcing us to do anyhting or feel a certain way, we simply are allowing it to do so. I would say that it is not completely the ego mind’s fault for the fear and parnoia that we feel. If we were to raise full awareness of our Being and the unlimited potential that it possesses, we would be able to overcome such fears and to transcend such physical boundaries and enter the world of unlimited possibilties. Therefore, I think it is simply ourselves who is allowing the fear and paranoia to overwhelm us. Different emotions do occur, and it is pretty hard to live life with only positive emotions, but when we do feel fear, perhaps we should look inward and reflect on ourselves – on our Beings. Who is it that has the power to create and has the potential to bring out unlimited possilities? =)

Fermin wrote: When we've stepped back and realized that we're not our ego-minds, does that mean that we've connected with the Universal Being then? Or does it just mean that we're more in tuned with our own being but with the possibility that we haven't yet realized the interconnectivity of things and the infinite potential?

Well, the moment we've realized that we're not our ego-minds, we'll probably be stuck with an identity crisis: what then are we? Without any previous knowledge of interconnectivity and the Universal Being, it would take some time for someone to actually connect interconnectivity into this picture. Maybe even after recognizing the ego-mind, a person will never find out about interconnectivity and infinite potential. It sounds like a huge step: your ego mind stops you from doing things you could be doing --> there is no limit to your potential. There seems to be a missing link...or maybe it's just that simple: ego limits, therefore no ego equals no limit!

But how does that then connect to interconnectivity? I have no idea. But then interconnectivity is everywhere, from biology (the ecosystem) to the internet. I think understanding interconnectivity does not necessarily come from the realization that ego-mind is not ourselves, but having the ego-mind does not prevent one from seeing the interconnectivity. After, it is a part of our daily lives.

ego limits, therefore no ego equals no limit!

But how does that then connect to interconnectivity? I have no idea. But then interconnectivity is everywhere, from biology (the ecosystem) to the internet. I think understanding interconnectivity does not necessarily come from the realization that ego-mind is not ourselves, but having the ego-mind does not prevent one from seeing the interconnectivity. After, it is a part of our daily lives

Doesn't this have to do with surface interconnectivity and the inner interconnectivity?

It's like when we link hands, we're linked physically, but not non-locally.

I suppose realizing that we're the ego-mind doesn't make us inter-connective. It's the act of actually doing it that matters the most. According to studies, meditation can allow us to shut-up the ego-mind for a period of time, when we just focus on the nothingness - or everything, only that you just let it flow. We live in interconnectivity, but it is whether we actually practice it, whether or not we take the time of day to actually cleanse our thoughts. Seeing is definitely the first step to doing - at least you're aware of the problem.

Yes, everything is bonded by some sort of link, whether on the outside or the inside.

Fermin wrote:
When we've stepped back and realized that we're not our ego-minds, does that mean that we've connected with the Universal Being then? Or does it just mean that we're more in tuned with our own being but with the possibility that we haven't yet realized the interconnectivity of things and the infinite potential?

Once we learn that we are NOT our ego-minds, we will probably be stuck with an identity crisis just as Hannah said. However, once the ego-mind has been removed we begin to become more aware of our surroundings. The ego mind doesn’t really block us from feeling the Universe, but more like redirect our attention. Remember the quote "Thoughts create reality"? How in the world do we know about the Universe if all we ever see are materialistic objects? If we are constantly busy with daily life, there is a small chance that a person would just pause and reach toward his Being. The mind has its own selective attention; it puts things into a priority and goes according to its own plan.