Knowing the Inner-being and the ego-mind, which comes first??

Hey all,

When we meet someone such as a new friend, do we get to understand and interact with their higher-self/essence/inner-being first or do we get to know their ego-mind first?

As we have discussed in class about the Inner-beings which is the higher self or the essence of people as well as the ego-mind which is the everyday planning and classical mind set, I have wondered whether we get to know someone's inner-being or essence first or the ego-mind? Following this question is the question that i came to ask myself whether I am letting people to interact and getting to communicate with me at a deeper level of inner-being or at the upper level of the ego mind.

Just as a add on, did anyone ever felt that they know someone really well even though you just met them? Is this a result of the ego-mind that forms this familiarity from the past or is it because we are communicating at a level of innerbeing?

I have posted my questions on these forums, but becuase i have not been able to find revalent threads, i decided to start my own, they are all pretty active boards, so hopefully I will get replies soon:P Here are the links:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?s=192dbf8e550a3be9fa1b065f68b72515&f=12

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showforum=95

http://www.gurusfeet.com/forum/quot-am-i-body-quot-meditation#comment-5083

I believe that in most typical cases, upon first meeting a person, we interact with their ego-mind. We often, if not nearly always, meet new people in average, every-day situations, which, in order for us to function in, requires use of our ego-mind. The ego-mind helps us plan things, it helps us carry out mundane, everyday tasks, and it helps guide our more superficial, common interactions with people.

Upon meeting a new person, we almost indefinitely undergo the typical introductory question exchange, asking stuff such as a) where they are from, b) what do they do, c) what their interests are, etc. This is a very ego-mind intensive process, as we are attempting to collect information of the person to understand the person. We almsot always have to go through that information collecting stage to truly understand a person. Rarely do we ever understand a person's essence upon first meeting.

More to come later, but for now, math tutor awaits.

depending on the person, though with most people it's the ego mind that we know first. We all wear a mask in society to conform to socially acceptable standards. This mask is commonly made up of rules such as common courtesy, though these rules differ with culture. As we get to know people, we eventually come to the point where we feel comfortable enough to remove the mask. We feel that our friends understand us enough, and won't misjudge us for behavior that normally isn't acceptable in society.

These masks are limiting, as they keep us from immediately communicating with most other people. Society even makes it so that if you remove your own mask, you are likely going to be misjudged and exiled. You are cut off from even the chance to establish the understanding that is a prerequisite to communicating with people with theirs removed as well.

It can go both ways I guess, people that have a stronger sense of identity can let more of their true being show, while others, which is the majority of us, will shy away and let our ego-mind operate. Why? Because we're afraid, afraid of how people will judge us and what they'll think of us. So naturally we'll want to hide behind something, to keep our real thoughts to ourselves, test the waters a bit, figure out who or what we're dealing with and then decide which parts of us are safe to drop out into the open. But as we get closer to these people, we start to develop a mutual tolerance with them and it allows for more communication. More of what makes up who we are is revealed and more of what makes them up is revealed.

So yeah, people that know who they are and embrace the fact that they are who they are will show who they are. And those that don't know or don't accept who they are will be less inclined to reveal themselves, instead, relying on the ego-mind to interact with new people.

Everyone is different and have different ways of expressing themselves. So I think it depends on the person and their own connection with their inner beings. For example, if a person is really caught up in their busy everyday lives and doesnt have much time for themselves to be in touch with their essences, then we might experience their ego mind at a more surface level. However, if a person is more in touch with their inner beings (through meditation perhaps) then their method of expressing themselves would be very different from the busy, egomind based person. Therefore, we might experience more of their essence when we come in contact with them.
I think the level at which you allow others to interact with you is dependent on how comfortable you are with yourself and how much do you really understand about yourself. People who rarely have time to quieten down and pull themselves away from the buzz of the materialistic and busy world would be quite unfamiliar with the deeper and more profound side of their beings, therefore, they would feel less comfortable letting others experience their innermost selves when they first meet each other. They are more likely to reserve and keep that deeper part of themselves for certain close people to experience. On the contrary, people who are highly in touch with their essence and feel comfortable with its exposure would be quite open to letting people experience the power and influence of their inner beings. So, I think whether you choose to allow people to interact with your essence or ego mind first is dependent on your own level of connection with your own intuition.
I think when people get that familiar feeling with someone they had just met before may be because their essences exist on similar frequencies. People vary greatly, and I think this is because our essences and inner beings exists on different planes or frequencies as other people. (for example Lee is very different from Kathy and so their inner beings would be far away from each other in terms of similarities) I think people who can interact with another person on a higher level than the everyday social interactions is maybe because a part of their essence or inner being is aligned or similar to that of the other person. Resulting in a connection and vibe that is similar. Therefore they feel a deeper connection and thus a sense of familiarity arises even when they first meet each other.

Um that's a really tough question. Is it possible to meet a part of the person's mind AND the Being?? because i think it depends on the circumstance and the timing. Well, if you're asking in general... then maybe the ego mind first perhaps? because the ego mind is usually the apprehensive, worried, paranoid, extreme part of the person. And one usually would have a reactive response when first meeting someone or when he/she was approached first because it's something "new" and no one knows what's going to happen next so the mind might go into overdrive...But the person who approaches first might be at their essence because maybe they're looking for something "new" and they want to see something happen--thus it's the essence/Being. So it's the mind encountering the Being--of two individuals. cool right? lol

Josh, good job on the additional question about feeling like you know someone really well just upon meeting them, and what is this a function of? Good choice of forums, too, so I'm excited to see what responses you get. You've done a great catch up job, thanks for being such a team player.

This discussion is rich so far; I look forward to more responses to your questions.

So impressed with you all.
Cheers!
Ms K

Vincent_Lee wrote:I believe that in most typical cases, upon first meeting a person, we interact with their ego-mind. We often, if not nearly always, meet new people in average, every-day situations, which, in order for us to function in, requires use of our ego-mind. The ego-mind helps us plan things, it helps us carry out mundane, everyday tasks, and it helps guide our more superficial, common interactions with people.

Upon meeting a new person, we almost indefinitely undergo the typical introductory question exchange...

Yes, the ego mind is the most surface level thing that we show other people. Our own ego mind attempts to grasp how or what that person is like, even though it can't really tell precisely, it'll sometimes even make illogical statements just to make it fit into the scheme of things. For example, when I was in summer camp at CAA, immediately someone asked me whether I was Japanese. Now, thinking back onto it, I felt that the person, though making the attempt to connect, didn't really want to know me, at least, not my true self. So what if I'm Japanese? Does that mean I watch more Japanese shows or like Anime more? You can see that whichever way I answered, there's going to be an assumption made one way or the other. Ego minds can be extremely illogical in order to make things work out for them.

Now that I think about it, you can't really get to know a person's essence even through conversing with him. You have to feel him, make contact with his essence from your own. A conversation might be nice in revealing physical and sometimes mental aspects of his life, but his life is not him. The ego mind is even harder to subside with the masks that Henning just described. Imagine two complete strangers meeting each other alone. There is none of that societal mask, but there is still a barrier between the two that prevents free changes of anything. Emerson also went on about how a true friend is someone who you can be truthful to. Not many people get to get the luxury of showing your true self to someone else.

But what exactly is true self? Is the self that you reveal to your friend your essence or just another, deeper part of your ego mind? What does the essence have to reveal? The essence doesn't contain the outside world, it doesn't have anything to do with the external world. I don't know, but I really have nothing to hide from anyone. My scores? I don't mind being compared to. My self? Well, what is there that I can hide? When I talk to my friends, I often like to enjoy myself in a discussion of ideals, an exchange of ideas. So is that the essence? I don't think so, as essence is what makes you yourself (other than the materialistic world things). An idea is not about yourself. OH. So, through the exchange of ideas, you can get a glimpse of the essence. Though when we analyze other people, we use the ego mind to do so. Therefore we can get a completely off analysis of someone's true self. Often we do, through the things they do, we assume too much about their other activities. Like that other day during Chinese with Lee's project. What we do can only tell so much about us.

Now some of you guys said "meeting someone with your essence." What do we mean by that? We would have no ego-mind involved (if both are meeting each other with their essence), we would have no restrictions upon those two....but from what? Restrictions from expressing what?

So it seems like initially, we present the ego mind to others, maybe with a hint of being, depending on our personal level with our practice with such things. What about continuous meetings, after the basic knowledge information exchange has happened? Slowly things start trickling out as we become more comfortable with the other person?

Joshua wrote:
Just as a add on, did anyone ever felt that they know someone really well even though you just met them? Is this a result of the ego-mind that forms this familiarity from the past or is it because we are communicating at a level of innerbeing?

Oh why does this remind me of High School Musical?
But ok, this familiarity. Is it, as others have mentioned, because of the past experiences the ego mind draws from, or is it because we all share the universal essence and we feel that? But then that means we DO feel essence upon an initial meeting.

And as someone else mentioned, such an exchange does depend on ourselves too. The word "interaction" is something between two or more people. Like what Sophia said, we need to take into account what we bring up to the plate and offer to the other person.

And Sophia, you said we have different inner beings (with Kat and Lee as examples), but how different are they really if they are to have originated from the same source?

very interesting topic, Josh

joyceychen wrote:So it seems like initially, we present the ego mind to others, maybe with a hint of being, depending on our personal level with our practice with such things. What about continuous meetings, after the basic knowledge information exchange has happened? Slowly things start trickling out as we become more comfortable with the other person?

Pretty much. If we feel we can relate to whatever aspects of their being that they display, then we feel inclined to reveal more of ours in hopes of strengthening our bond.

But ok, this familiarity. Is it, as others have mentioned, because of the past experiences the ego mind draws from, or is it because we all share the universal essence and we feel that? But then that means we DO feel essence upon an initial meeting.

Essence will trickle through with the way the person presents himself, though at that stage, I would assume the egomind "veil" is still kept up in average first encounters.

And Sophia, you said we have different inner beings (with Kat and Lee as examples), but how different are they really if they are to have originated from the same source?

Although Kathy and I emerged from the same source, it is possible that each of us encompass different aspects of same source. Going back to the packet about cells, though cells emerge from the same energy, they each take on different functions, although they are serving the same common good. Perhaps I'm a neuron and Kathy's a white blood cell. <shrugs> That's one take on it, although it feels a bit shaky.

I suppose the more straightforward, obvious answer to your question would be the differences only exist because of our different egominds. My brain's a bit drained (as is my body) after a night of wrapping my head around trigonometry, acute angles, cotangents, and whatnot as well as the enormous task of fleshing out my 8-part post, so excuse me. I think I'll be going to pay off my sleep debt now.

Being goes down
Ego mind is safe and sound
I am going hell bound
No!
Go?
I feel the love with no ego
So yo,yo~
Thats the only right way
He, Being, might save the day
Everybody listen to MS kay
Who eva dont listens gay
Aye!
You all ego got nothing to say.

I do believe that we meet new people with the ego mind first, because there is a mutual agreement to ask others about their daily life, the weather,(even through we already freaking know the weather) and so on. The first confrontation with another one, and one speaks with a sincere inside, that person would probably be deemed as a weirdo by the surrounding ego minds. THis is probably the ego minds taking act, trying to survive. Because they see that sensation of self trust, awareness, affection expand from the individual and seep through the surrounding people, they feel the souls, spirit that they(egotistic mind) have supressed for so long vibrtae with a same frequency to the true individual.

Notice how a few of the newer students, that met us with their true hearts, or souls now live happily ever after. Even though at first, people rejected their direct behaviour, and = it with craziness, or shameless. But after a few weeks the same pople that rejected them are their best friends. THis shows how one person can be the man, shoving away all the ego minds for the others, allowing the truthfl conversations to interact to grow. That is probably why we have a tingling joy when we see that naive individual trotting towards us. Same vibe?

[Although Kathy and I emerged from the same source, it is possible that each of us encompass different aspects of same source. Going back to the packet about cells, though cells emerge from the same energy, they each take on different functions, although they are serving the same common good. Perhaps I'm a neuron and Kathy's a white blood cell. <shrugs> That's one take on it, although it feels a bit shaky.
/quote]

That might be true, but we all agree that we are the most pure/pristine when we just peeked out of the womb. I believe that we all inherited the whole database of the Supreme being. Its just that we express it differently in the end because of our ego. Our ego minds may permit a source of my Self to expand and grow, the source(s) that it feels that it will not affect the control of the mind, but it may limit and bash the other strips of essence from growing. So the database that we got as a whole gets some epic pwnage from the ego mind, and are not expressed, are not exercised. Most cells in the body exhibit the same DNA, its jsut that due to the different receptors, channel gates, etc that recieve the cells express them differently, because different sets/fragments of information are exposed, rather than the whole set. Then the ego mind turns into a rRNA and stamps out Being like introns.

BC wrote:Most cells in the body exhibit the same DNA, its jsut that due to the different receptors, channel gates, etc that recieve the cells express them differently, because different sets/fragments of information are exposed, rather than the whole set. Then the ego mind turns into a rRNA and stamps out Being like introns.

So what you are saying is that the egomind are the receptors, channel gates and such, as it allows some aspects of our Being to come through but surpresses others? If that is right, then it is not really the egomind that allows some parts of our Being to come through, no? It's more likely to be our own force of will in that case.

I agree the first interaction between two people is usually focused toward "ego-mind", but could it be possible that one can have such a strong being that it emits some sort of energy aura around him/her? Perhaps just by the presence we are able to get a general feel of that certain person. But then that gets into the question of our identities. Who are we? Are our identities judged by our personalities? Our abilities? Our Being? Or more of a perceptual set of the mind? We meet a person and we get an impression. Is this impression a result from our minds or being? How can you actually differentiate the two when our minds create reality? Sure, we can get feeling from one's Being "aura", but this aura is still basically energy and information. Aren't our minds the ones that interpret these specks of info into what we perceive as feeling or emotion?
So my grounded question is now “Is feeling a product of the mind or soul"?
What do you people think?

Andy.S wrote:So my grounded question is now “Is feeling a product of the mind or soul"?

I think our feelings are a combination of both really. We have the gut emotional reaction, which is then directed and perhaps filtered at a certain direction by our mind. This idea bears factors to the two-factor theory, I suppose.

Let's raise an example to make our discussions a bit easier. Perhaps one day a "wiseman" (not a wiseguy) approaches you and presents you with a radical, life-changing idea. Osho could be thought of as such a wiseman and his ideas presented in those packets are those radical, life-changing ideas. Can you remember your initial reaction to those ideas? I'll assume that yours was similar to mine, that is, apprehension, skepticism, fear, and maybe even a bit of anger. Those reactions are very much egomind based. We are afraid of leaving giving up our familiar comforts, so we feel fear and doubt. We might even lash out to avoid having to give up our comforts. However, once we cleared our biases, our prejudices, and conditioning, the message was able to get through and speak to our being. Those negative feelings were replaced with a sense of enlightened understanding, of wonder and possibility. I speak for myself in regards to those specific emotions but after we overcame the egomind's resistance, we were left with a largely positive feeling no?

Now, this argument was presented on ideas, not emotions, but we can apply that same logic to emotions, as all ideas invariably carry an emotional quality to them. Does that give you some added perspective?

hm..ok, so andy, I'm not too sure about that. Kind of sounds like Philip's discussion in the other thread about emotions, where they come from.

But I think Bradley's made a very good/interesting point. When you first meet someone, how true are you? If youre trying to impress that person (maybe that person is someone famous or has some quality that makes you look up to him/her, etc), you might pretend a bit. But if it's a spontaneous exchange, you might as well be true to yourself and be genuine. In this case, it would seem like the being is presented.
And in the continuous meetings after the first, Emerson advises us to be sincere and not hide behind a mask - show your essence.

If you first meet someone, it probably is from the ego mind, because there is still the distance when you first get to know each other. If there is this mask in between, then I suppose it is the ego mind that is working, because you are unwilling to let the guard down, right?
On the other hand, if one meets another just then, but it feels like that you have known each other for lives, then I guess it is the essence starting to make connection. However, that is strictly under the circumstance if you are not holding any pretense, because the pretense and insincerity are all products of the ego mind, which is training us to fit to the society.

Hey,

I read all of your replies just now, and from the replies i get that most of the people are saying that upon meeting a new person, we are getting to understand their ego-mind first, however, it is possible that we do feel their "aura." As kenny, hen, lee and others said, i agree that people with stronger confidence or stronger energy lets others into their essence more frequently. THe mask mentioned in the replies that people put on is very, very fascinating to me; how so? Well, it reminds me of people where you never seem to be able to rip off their mask that they put on and why is that? Is it just becuase they are afraid to show their essence? Or is it because of the social or bringing ups of those people? Is it possible that in the Taiwanese culture, we put on a heavier mask?

As Emerson said, a true friend is one where you can be sincere with, meaning completely open to them: is it possible that we find true friends nowadays which we can share our essence with as a two-way relationship??

I agree too that each individual's essence probably came from the same Supreme Being, but each one of us express the aspects of the Supreme being differently

As Andy has asked, I think that feelings are originated and rooted from the inner-being, yet expressed through the ego-mind that we as humans use as a tool. And this relates back to my redirection of the question: How heavy of a mask do we put upon ourselves to cover up feelings? Why do we do this?

ALot of questions up here, therefore, you don't need to feel that you need to answer all of those questions I think though, that these questions may come together to one single answer

Oh, Andy mentioned something about identities. As we coin words to our identities, are we not labeling ourselves? Are the distinctions really necessary, if we are one with everything? Why are we constantly trying to differentiate between each other? According to The Secret, if you believe something and act it, it will show up. Every "I'm not" is just a creation of our minds. The universe will show us how to get something, and it will get it done for us.

So I think it depends on the person and their own connection with their inner beings.

Does it not also depend on us, the very people who are interacting with others? As in, if someone was more of a shallow and superficial individual who only views what is on the external membrane, then they are not very likely to have the desire or the capability to interact with others' essences first. Similarly, if someone has mastered the concept of becoming the observer to everything around them, then they would be more likely to perceive the higher beings of others. But then again, this depends on both parties? Maybe someone's higher being is so strong that it radiates and affects even the most ego-mind dominated person? Then again, maybe before we have met them, we have already developed preconceived biases,prejudices, or feelings about that person. Maybe when we see them, our ego mind label them with stereotypes. Then we would be interacting with our ego mind instead of feelings of the now and the present, with a beginner's mind that is an open book with blank pages.

joyceychen wrote:But I think Bradley's made a very good/interesting point. When you first meet someone, how true are you? If youre trying to impress that person (maybe that person is someone famous or has some quality that makes you look up to him/her, etc), you might pretend a bit. But if it's a spontaneous exchange, you might as well be true to yourself and be genuine. In this case, it would seem like the being is presented. And in the continuous meetings after the first, Emerson advises us to be sincere and not hide behind a mask - show your essence.

Even if we aren't trying to impress them, how true to our own nature can we be without appearing like frankly, a weirdo? How many people are used to meeting a person who's being just - for my lack of better description - comes straight at them? I'll raise an example with Deliah here. We all know Deliah's habit of wanting to hug just about everyone. Her hugging, more likely than not to be a manifestation of her being, is one we would normally find to be warm and comforting if it was from say, people we were more familiar with (friends, family, boyfriend/girlfriend). Coming from Deliah, who is probably not someone most of us here are that familiar with, the hugs are quite intimidating. Part of that fear could result from the sheer force she hugs with, but I'd assume a good part of it emerges from that thought of "Who is this near-complete stranger trying to hug me?!". That is probably the thought running in our head in initial hugging encounters but over a while we get used to it (perhaps not the pain) but it becomes something we are more comfortable with. It's something we can expect from Deliah, something we can expect from her Being. Familiarity plays an important role in the gradual revealing of our essence.

[quote="Vincent_Lee"]
Even if we aren't trying to impress them, how true to our own nature can we be without appearing like frankly, a weirdo? quote]

Hm...but this hugging act of hers (youre saying it comes from her essence? please correct me if I'm off) gets her labelled In a not-so-postive way. Why should she care of labels? Arent we not supposed to conform to society? I think of Hester from Scarlet Letter, but I can't think too straight at the moment, so I can't seem to complete this connection.

"And Sophia, you said we have different inner beings (with Kat and Lee as examples), but how different are they really if they are to have originated from the same source?"

I think that although we originate from the same source, which is the universal reliance and being, we each have very different ego minds that expresses our essences in the everyday life. Remember how Ms Kay said sometime in class before that we each receive VERY different teachings and conditioning since childhood. This means that we are all exposed to different things on different levels. And because our everyday actions and thoughts are mostly guided by our ego minds, we approach things differently and have differing perspectives on the same issues. That is what makes us unique and different from one another. This difference is also on the essence level because although we stem from the same source, we each have different progresses, growth and development, which leads to the creation of different beings. And because divinity has put in different strengths and characteristics in us, we have our own ways of expressing those qualities. When a combination of different factors lead us to develop differently and to express unique qualities, we become different beings although we stem from the same source and the qualities are put in us by the same higher being. They are the different components which can come together to advance and progress together (as mentioned as the goal of the midterms essay).

I think some people rely heavily on their societal masks perhaps because they themselves dont even know who they are on a deeper level. If someone is not comfortable even with themselves and who their real inner beings are, how are they supposed to be comfortable with displaying their essences and allowing people to interact with that more intimate part of themselves. It also has to do with societal conditioning because, as we have discussed before in class, the Chinese culture seems to be more reserved and puts more restraints on the individual and their self control (which in a way is the limiting boundaries one sets on themselves). Because we are required to act in conformity with the rules of the society and the laws that are set up by authoritative figures (which usually makes people into identical robots), we then gradually tend to hide ourselves away so that we are not exposing our uniqueness (because it might not be accepted or viewed as a characteristic trait). So as the societal conditioning bores into our beings and we are overtaken by these doctrines, we tend to put on a heavier mask in order to conceal our differences and therefore act in conformity with the rest of the society. This is perhaps a part of what the Chinese cultural expectations, to reserve to yourself and act with conformity...

so interesting ^^

BC wrote:Being goes down
Ego mind is safe and sound
I am going hell bound
No!
Go?
I feel the love with no ego
So yo,yo~
Thats the only right way
He, Being, might save the day
Everybody listen to MS kay
Who eva dont listens gay
Aye!
You all ego got nothing to say.

nice bradley. dug the yo yo beat dude going on in my head. But er, so what's this saying in regards to josh's topic? Oh, I get it. Hmm.

Vincent_Lee wrote:

joyceychen wrote:But I think Bradley's made a very good/interesting point. When you first meet someone, how true are you? If youre trying to impress that person (maybe that person is someone famous or has some quality that makes you look up to him/her, etc), you might pretend a bit. But if it's a spontaneous exchange, you might as well be true to yourself and be genuine. In this case, it would seem like the being is presented. And in the continuous meetings after the first, Emerson advises us to be sincere and not hide behind a mask - show your essence.

Even if we aren't trying to impress them, how true to our own nature can we be without appearing like frankly, a weirdo? How many people are used to meeting a person who's being just - for my lack of better description - comes straight at them? I'll raise an example with Deliah here. We all know Deliah's habit of wanting to hug just about everyone. Her hugging, more likely than not to be a manifestation of her being, is one we would normally find to be warm and comforting if it was from say, people we were more familiar with (friends, family, boyfriend/girlfriend). Coming from Deliah, who is probably not someone most of us here are that familiar with, the hugs are quite intimidating. Part of that fear could result from the sheer force she hugs with, but I'd assume a good part of it emerges from that thought of "Who is this near-complete stranger trying to hug me?!". That is probably the thought running in our head in initial hugging encounters but over a while we get used to it (perhaps not the pain) but it becomes something we are more comfortable with. It's something we can expect from Deliah, something we can expect from her Being. Familiarity plays an important role in the gradual revealing of our essence.

Vincent, really good point with Deliah's hugs, that they are indeed a reflection of her own unique inner being and her honoring this. Perhaps being a new one here, and feeling whatever contrasts she felt here to her last home, she felt a need to create whatever her hugging does. So that the hugging is an expression of her own needs but the force of her hugs is actually her unique being's expression.

Read the first letter of every fragment sent. piece it up